What Really Happened To Natalee Holloway?

I think Natalee got drunk and went to the lighthouse that the boys mentioned. she might hav been raped but I think she fell from the light house onto the rocks below. The boys freeked out and left her there and the tide came in and took her out to sea. They will never find her and they need to stop wasting manpower and money. Her mom needs to start the healing process and stop acting like a crazy.

[...] re: 1. If you want lots of juvenile nasty comments, they can be found here. 2. Another site is speculating that she had sex with all three of the [...]

Natalee got in a car after the bar that night thinking it was a cab, but it was those three goobers. The goobers took her to the beach near the lighthouse, raped her and ditched her near that pond. The big goober went home freaked out and told big daddy what they did. The dad took his gobber son and met the other goobs. They all then went to the body. The dad told the three goobers what to say to the authorities, and they stripped the clothes off her, and ditched the body at sea at a location known for lots of sharkes. The sharkes ate her immediately, and they burned the clothes and dumped the ashes at sea also. She's history and there is no evidence that those bone-brained third world morons in Aruba can find. If it was the US, we probably would find some DNA and blood, but then some freaky liberal attorney, judge and dumb ass jurors would find the goobers not guilty her too. They will likely let the last goober go soon. Poor girl, she had a life and these faggots stole it...one less babe in the US is not a good thing.

...just my opinion, based on news and what the mom thinks.

I think that theory about her falling from the lighthouse is really good. I had not thought of that. However, I do not think the boys just left to wash out to sea. I think they disposed of her. But I do think there was either consensual sex with those boys or a gang rape occurred. I think that the family made a huge mistake by coming out to th media right away reiterating that she was "Little Miss Perfect" b/c anyone can tell you that those girls can be the student council president and homecoming queen at school and big hooch after school and on Friday night.

i think she got hammered, went with these 3 assholes.. they raped her, she was so intoxicated and had alchohol poisioning, they didnt know what to do , so they threw her in the ocean........but i hope they find her and this all gets resolved.

I am from USA. I visited Aruba. I have a story.

I am replying to the last few comments about Natalee. I just got back from Aruba yesterday after spending 7 days there. There needs to be some corrections thrown into these comments, before they get too far to the left.

Firstly, the lighthouse (N-NW end) is an old lighthouse, and quite visible from the northern 1/2 of the island, if you are off the shoreline snorkeling or something. It is only a few miles north of the hotel Natalee was staying. However, I questioned the man at the lighthouse when I visited it. There has been no visitors allowed to climb the lighthouse for some time, is is locked up. You can only view it from the ground. Unless these kids had some rock climbing experience and a hook rope to lasso the windows from the outside and climb the face of it at 2A.M. while intoxicated, the lighthouse fall is an impossibility.

There is another lighthouse, on the extreme SE side of the island. The island is only 20 miles long and 6 miles wide. However, to drive it would take quite a while from north of the capital city and Carlos and Charlies, as the only way to get to it would either be to off-road drive to it from the center of the island, or take the main road through the capital city and drive all along the southern edge, which would not be real easy, intoxicated. They would have had to drive this over a 1.5 hour period, one way (to get to the 2nd lighthouse). Not possible as they were last seen in the bar around 1 A.M. drunk. And for the same reasons, I think that going to the incinerator (oil refinery) to incinerate the body that night are incorrect, it is also farthest point of the island (which does open the possibility of incerating the body several days later, when they were released for no evidence)... Oh yeah, one other thing, all waves from that side of the island will bring junk to shore. If the body was "washed out", the body would reappear very quickly. I swam out towards the area called Baby Beach, and first hand witnessed the ocean action there, on S-SE side. Windsurfers like to go there, and we saw a few, as the waves do not take you out very long, they bring you back in.

I also visited the shark feeding area, on N-NE side of island. THAT is a strong possibility for them to have gone there. However, unless the kids knowingly were going to use this as a site (pre-meditated) for dumping a body, this site would also have had to be driven to from somewhere else. It is accesible from a main road, within a few miles of one anyways, which would make it accesible with even a 2 wheel drive vehicle, if careful and locals know where to drive. It is also very close to the natural bridge, and the reason for the paved road out this far (E side of the island). But, they would have had to load the body into a vehicle to get here there. Anyone who has been drunk and walking, at night, knows that it would literally take hours to walk a few miles. I believe they didn't walk to the shark area, unless they either convinced Natalee the shark area was a "safe area to swim", or she was already passed out and carried there.

I did some off-road driving/touring while there, did this for a whole day. It took a whole day to circle the island, even by using some paved roads as cross-points, and I did not get to see everything, including many cave areas on the E-SE side of the island. But neither do I know the island like the locals. The N and E side of the island is not paved roads, dirt, rocky, and desolate. Unless Natalee was so drugged up that she didn't even know where she was, she would in no right mind travel to this area, at night, let alone with no friends and only strangers.

The lagoon that they drained, in my opinion, was a political attempt to show they were doing "something". But I guess I can see if the kids were stupid enough to toss eveidence out the window while coming back the hotel. But it appears they found nothing, as nothing was roped off. It was good they did this, but a needle in the haystack for sure.

I snorkeled on an afternoon tour one day. In my mind, I thought about how accessible alcohol is here. Although the guides said you didn't need to drink, they pushed the alcohol hard, open bar most places you go (after you pay the tour), and most drinks are poured "burnt" (bartender slang for very very strong, like 80% of the glass, which was 8 oz size). I saw several people take it in this way. And that is a "calm" tour, in daylight! I drank a few beers, that was all. I quit hard liquor some time ago, for good reasons, so I can say I observed this activity. The morning snorkeling tour (same boat) was docked when we showed up for the afternoon tour. There was a lady sitting in a chair, all intoxicated, not sure how she quite made it snorkeling, but was kissing on the tour guides. This female tourist was obviously overserved, but what made it a little humorous was she was about 50 and the guides were about early 20's. But I saw two staff guys guide her to another boat, which I assume was going to take her back to where she came from. It looked professionally handled, but I think they just wanted her off the beach and stopped being kissed! Anyways, but ... my point is.... that alcohol will lower your inhibitions and reactions. No brainer. But if I was the 50's year old woman's husband, or her friend, I would have stepped in. But this is a common place thing. I never went to spring break in Florida or anything, but from what I have heard, this is very tame considering everything people do in USA on spring break. Don't get me wrong, I had plenty of similar fun in my youth (I am in my early 40's now) but have gotten past the night highs and the morning lows. Natalee will never see another morning.

All the locals were nice, I should tell you, and like USA very much, for it is the tourist industry that they survive on. So count out the boat guide that was questioned. He knew nothing.

My theory? She was definitely drugged while in the bar, she was over-served with alcohol, she was somewhat incoherent when she left the bar, she was date raped either by 1, 2 or all 3 guys on the beach, then, they drove directly to the shark area and threw her in. The perfect crime. And yes, all 3 knows what happened, because unless a 4th individual came back to pick up the judges son, he could NOT have walked home from the shark area unless he did not get back to the capital city until well after daylight.

And the Judge-in-training? Yes, he knows something. He also knows that his son has a history of this. I do not believe that Natalee is his first victim of date rape. I believe other people who have toured this island over the last 2-4 years should speak up. They owe it to Natalee and the future of the women visiting Aruba.

I think it interesting about the kidnapping to another place in South America. But unless this was pre-arranged, it would have had to be very well organized, with more people involved. Payoffs. All that. Someone would talk. Someone will talk, if this theory is true. I just don't buy that one at this time.

I pray for Natalee's family. Noone should have to go through this. Natalee's Mom is strong, not by her own doings.

I feel for Natalee, and even though I don't agree with interfering in police business, I support Natalee's Mom for confronting the bastard that cause Natalee ill harm, sexually, and possibly fatally. May God have mercy on their souls, if they will ever repent of this hate crime against young, vulnerable, women.

Enough said.

Just wanted to add a few things...
Not meant to correct anyone else but simply debate...I'm big on having opinions (Everyone having their opinions, not just me! )
I have been to Aruba as well, (within the past few years). I did not experience this wildness everyone eludes to, and my husband and I are drinkers. There wasn't much advertisement for that type of establishment except for the party buss. Some islanders did try to sell us weed at the market/street vendors there across from Iguana Joe's but that's because I was young and casually dressed in a long skirt with short, choppy hair i.e. looked the part more than anyone else shopping that morning.

We did the ATV tour up to the lighthouse. This lighthouse being the famous one that resembles one you would see in Holland with tulips around it. It was not a traditional, extremely high lighthouse like you see in New England. It was not that tall and was wider in diameter with a distinct Dutch look. I have assumed this was "the" lighthouse referred to and have seen nothing that indicates it was a specific one. In my hometown, there is a place called Tiger Mountian. At the top, there is a huge fire tower. The top of the fire tower is very high up; you have to back a truck up to the base , have someone hoist you, stretch your arms, pull yourself up to the stairs. I have not done this (as I am not an idiot) but a LOT of my old friends did. It is terrifying looking and most people would argue that there is not way someone could get up there, being that the bottom level of metal is a good 14 or 15 feet off the ground. That doesn't stop kids from going up there to drink beer. I think that kids can do things that we automatically rule out due to logic, b/c, well, they don't worry about it as much. (Speaking from experience...) Like I said, I have been up there many times to leave people behind when they insisted on climbing up there with some other fools (i.e. boys).

As far as walking, that has never really been a problem for anyone I know, though we haven't set out to walk a straight path for miles after killing someone. We have been to places that require a lot of walking (street festivals, pub crawls, for example) and no one was slower than usual. I think that we are underestimating them. No one to my knowledge ever verified that they were "drunk". They might have only drank a couple throughout the night. That would mean that come 1am, they were likely fine. hmmm. We'll never know. To someone that has never had an alcoholic drink, they will sometimes reference somone having one drink to be drunk, b/c they don't understand that one drink doesn 't make someone who "drinks" socially drunk. This would be my mother thinking that someone was drunk with one beer. On the other hand, I have been through phases where it was acceptable to bring your own 12 pack to a party (college). In other words, people could drink about three beers before they felt anything buzz-wise, much less felt all out drunk. I am not using the term drunk in the way police do. I am using it in regards to how you feel, whether you are "affected", etc. I am alos not saying that it was ok that we drank so often that we needed a 12 pack for a party, but in my defense, we'd be there from 9pm til 3 am

I just want to say that kids will find a way, especially ones that live there. I don't think that there is any reason to conclude that she was drugged b/c I think she went with them willingly, NEVER dreaming they were going to rape her and kill her. I have read a lot of people on other sites say that she HAD to be drugged b/c being an innocent girl, she NEVER would have left with them. This is so wrong. If she was innocent then she might not dream of the terrible expectations they ahd of her. PLus, people that are drugged feel the effects very quickly and literally seem to be passing-out drunk. You can't drug someone and have a window where their mind os incohseive but they walk out of a bar. THey would have to be pratically carried out or helped out by someone really, really, holding them up. (former sorority member who had to watch infomational videos every semester so that we could recognize if a friend was ruphied).

At spring Break, you meet these people and by the end of the trip, it's like you really know them. By the end of the week, you were riding to a party at another hotel or out to eat, drink, with kids from somewhere else. My sister shared the story recently about how they met these guys fom the same state (made them just seem more trustworthy b/c they were from geographically close) and by the end of the week, they got in a car to ride to a party. Well, my sister and her two friends who did not drink/smoke were shocked when the boys each busted out a big joint. They made them take them back to the hotel but they were lucky.

Also, the island is not very big, like 20 miles long, 100 square miles. You can get from one place to another 20 miles away in a half hour or less. We never saw one cop car in Aruba and traffic laws are really different. Like you honk when going through a four-way "stop" instead of stopping if you were there first. The roads were empty at night when we took our rental out three times.

I just want to say that we never felt endangered in any way in Aruba. We had an awesome trip and have sworn a million times to go back, though we have been deterred by terrorist attacks/kidnappings in countries that are NEAR Aruba. But our previous time was after 9/11 anyway. I don't think we'll ever know what happened to her. I think this will be a case out kids hear specualtion about, like Ted Kennedy's "accident" to my generation.

Thoughts?

I like to put myself in the boys shoes to try to figure this out, together with the facts (and theories) to date. I've been to plenty of bars with chicks and wasn't in these guys category, but definitely saw these types of goobs. Here is this mongo looking goob (vender) with two ugly brother friends. Then there is this sexy blonde babe. Goob hits on her, and the friends watch with that ass-kissing envy. Like looking up to their big tough friend. A couple of ugly ducklings those brothers are, with no chance of taking one of these babes to a beach, hotel room, etc. So the big mongo goob gets pissed at the babe because she brushes him off and now he's embarrassed of the ass he is in front of his ugly friends. But he'll show her, and prove to his friends how he can get her regardles... The goob and the ugly ducklings figure a way to get her into their car...the cab decoy thing is probably the best way. The brothers are in a cheap little piece of crap car, and one is ducking in the back seat. The other looks like a native cabbie and picks her up. They go down the road with her and pick up the big goob. Off to some beach near that shark area... on the beach, gang raped, killed somehow (suffocation is my guess) and they ditch her in the brush. The goober freaks and tells the dad goob, and they all ditch the body at sea for the sharks, and get their stories straight. My opinion. And even if they repent, they'll still go to hell. But it would sure be nice to get those bastards before God, so we can put them away forever.

Sharks seldom eat everything. something would wash up. Much more likely--
It seems to me daddy van der Sloot is in this thing up to his eyeballs. A
good task for Beth's private investigator would be to determine if daddy's intimate
contacts and asshole buddies who owe him a favor include morticians or workers in a morgue/cemetery/crematorium. There would probably be money involved, so a good search of his bank records/cash stash would be in order. I'm just a nobody, and if I can imagine it, then the FBI probably advised the same. I believe it will possibly break soon. Their ain't no perfect crime when more than one person is involved.

A cemetery is an ideal place to conceal a body, with either a double or falsified
burial. Has anyone looked into the funerals/burials/permits which occurred near
the time in question?

Just a thought
Bob

I think the idea about getting rid of her by using a dummy funeral is a smart idea, much more likely than the sharks eating everything.........including cloth ?
seems to me something would wash up on shore, nets ? any fishing going on there and what about all the suba diving going on there ?
seems like someone would have something in the rocks down deep from the currents.

I think a look at the dump sights, wells, using body dogs would have worked early on.....at this point I think digging into their bank records might show more details to her where abouts or at least someone to pin point this a bit more.......too many people know what is going on.......more $$ needs to be offered and one of the greedy little bastards will choke on that money and tell on the others....

I kinda like the double burial theory myself. I did hear a reoport that they had equipment that could figure out ground density and figure out (with tips) if the ground had been recently dug. Hope they continue this search.

Although if I would think these guys (or one guy) would have raped and maybe killed her or left her for dead as drowned, or she was unconscience, what would prevent them from stripping her naked (they probably already did that anyways) and tossing her to the sharks, then cremating the clothes which they had I heard 18 days to do?

Also, the comment about the drinking from "DB", I agree with most of what you say, thanks. I just wanted to say that there were a few (many) times that I drank to excess in a past life, and that I was "conscience", dancing, carrying on a conversation, being flamboyont. The next day I don't remember even a few of these many people that came up to me (at college) to call me by name, say I was the funniest guy and intelligent guy they have met in a while (guys and girls, but mostly girls) and I don't remember one thing! Not one thing. Where I was, was I even with any friends, did I just leave and make new friends (which I was prone to do), was I at a house party, was I down town, was I in a dorm... Was I all those places? Scary. Lucky I am alive yet. The comment about guiding people out when they've had too much to drink (or other things) may be a true statement for some, but for me, it was not. I acted the same whether I had had 2 drinks or 40. But I learned the hard way, I do not do that any more. Thank God. I have a new lease on life.

I also saw a report on an investigator (forget the website) that is interviewing the "suspects" right now, trying to get them to take a lie detector (to clear their names). He was the lead Unabomber investigators, and I hear real good for cases like this. Sounds as if also, he is doing it on his dime. Good thinking, I agree that if they do not self-incriminate themselves or their buddies, then the opposite MUST be true... If they can't CLEAR their names of offense rape drugging assault or other (and why would someone NOT wish to clear their name or one of their best friends?)... UNLESS they WERE guilty of something ro hide!! I say that's on the money. Maybe they are being threatened by someone who is going to kill them if they talk. But talk, they aren't. I say in that case, absolutely accomplice. The other thing I had mentioned, is what this guy is also looking into (and others)... that there was at least 3 reported women that have recently stepped forward to say they were similarly assualted sexually in or at or near a bar there in the recent past.... and maybe if they tie this back to ANYONE associated with these bastards, it will start to unravel. I am glad people are looking at all directions and associations.

If other people are interested, I could do a re-search and find that site?

Bottom line is someone knows some thing. And it might take YEARS, but the truth will come out.

I should clarify..
When I said... "people that are drugged feel the effects very quickly and literally seem to be passing-out drunk. You can’t drug someone and have a window where their mind os incohseive but they walk out of a bar. THey would have to be pratically carried out or helped out by someone really, really, holding them up," I only meant that people incohesive due to ruphies or one of those date rape drugs would need help to walk, etc. I definately agree that you can be totally torn up on alcohol and still look ok, walk ok, dance ok, etc. I also did not mean that people WILLINGLY, recreationally doing drugs (not date rape drugs obviously) would be incohesive. Just people who have been slipped heavy doses of drugs with the intent of making them incohesive. Sorry for any confusion.

OK, so what so you all think about the arm washing ashore? I can't find any info on it at all and I missed the initial reports.

Natalee reportedly emerged from Carlos & Charlie's with Joran van der Sloot. As the other Mountain Brook High School students were climbing into taxis for the short return trip to the Holiday Inn, Natalee apparently went back into Carlos & Charlie's, possibly to use the restroom or to get something, and Joran and Satish Kalpoe reportedly walked away from the front of the Carlos & Charlie's, evidently going to Deepak's car.

When Natalee came out of Carlos & Charlie's again, she was reportedly escorted by Deepak Kalpoe who was reportedly holding her elbow, apparently assisting or steadying a reportedly tipsy Natalee. One of the few MBHS students that was still in front of Carlos & Charlie's reportedly asked Natalee if she was "okay." She reportedly responded that she was alright. And she and Deepak reportedly continued on to his car where she joined Joran in the rear seat.

Natalee Holloway was reportedly last seen around 1:30 Monday morning, May 30, leaving the area of Carlos & Charlie's in the back seat of Deepak Kalpoe's Honda automobile with Joran van der Sloot sitting beside her. Deepak was reportedly driving, and his younger brother Satish Kalpoe was sitting in the right front seat. Natalee is said to have rolled down the rear window on her side of the car, yelling some celebratory remarks at her classmates, as the car faded into the night.

The other Mountain Brook teenagers apparently thought Natalee and the three young men were returning to the Holiday Inn, which was reportedly her expressed intention, and because Joran van der Sloot reportedly told some of them that he was a vacationing college student from Holland, staying at the Holiday Inn.

Shortly after 8 AM that same morning, it was discovered that Natalee Holloway was missing. She evidently never returned to the Holiday Inn room that she shared with MBHS friends.

At the center of the "investigation" on Aruba is privileged Dutch self-described "loverboy" Joran van der Sloot whose influential Dutch pappa Paulus van der Sloot aspired to become a judge in the courts of the Kingdom of the Netherlands. 17-year-old Joran is seen in photos and on videotape illegally drinking and gambling, sometimes in the company of pappa Paulus. Since that alone is a violation of Aruba law, Joran van der Sloot is a criminal, and his pappa Paulus van der Sloot is an accessory, aiding and abetting his dependent juvenile son's criminal activity.

People who have played poker with young Joran say that he is not a good player. They say that he is easy to "read," very amateurish and can't "bluff." According to his fellow poker players, Joran was not a "winner."

Maybe the juvenile gambler was luckier at Blackjack where the odds are the best in the house, but still heavily against the player.

Self-described "Loverboy" Joran seems to always have a lot of ready cash and/or some kind of easily accessible house credit line and unlimited bar tab.

Provided by Dutch failed judge-in-training pappa Paulus and/or his mother Anita, family inheritance, or something and/or someone else? Joran doesn't seem to ever work...only go to school, occasionally participate in sports and "party" until all hours of the morning.

His "friends" describe drinking, drugs and sex as "party" activities. Joran and "friends" are reportedly members of a "gang" known as "The Pimps," and they have bragged via e-mail and on websites posted on the worldwide web about alcohol, other drugs, wild parties and sexual "gang-bangs," some allegedly with girls as young as 13 or 14 years of age.

The privileged 17-year-old Hollander Joran apparently comes and goes as he pleases from his separate apartment adjacent to his family's home on the van der Sloot property, and has since he turned 16, according to his mother Anita.

Anita stated during a videotaped interview that Joran "fights with his brothers, kicking them." And she is also on videotape, saying that Joran told her that Natalee would eventually "show up" and "when she does, I'm going to kick her butt right in front of her mother for putting us through all this."

Some young people on Aruba have said that Joran is "a drug dealer." Of course, when anyone anywhere can reportedly easily come up with drugs for his friends and acquaintances, one is likely to get that reputation, true or not.

When Beth Holloway Twitty, "Jug" and company described the car in which Natalee was last seen to a group of young people their first night on Aruba, one young man replied immediately, "That's Joran." He did not say "Deepak."

One may legally drink beer and have sex on Aruba when one is 16 years old, but one must be at least 18 years old to legally drive, drink hard liquor (including mixed drinks), gamble and engage in prostitution.

6'5" juvenile Dutch boy Joran van der Sloot very evidently illegally drives, drinks, gambles and more without any kind of restraints, penalties or punishment. Dutch pappa Paulus has said that his son doesn't gamble "for money." But, according to people who have played poker with the minor, that is not true. And 17-year-old Joran reportedly has an open line of credit with casinos on Aruba where 18 is the legal age for driving, drinking hard liquor, gambling and engaging in prostitution.

Is it any wonder that he is where he is today?

Dutch "party boy" Joran and his influential and well-connected judge-hopeful pappa Paulus, as well as possibly Deepak Kalpoe and/or Satish Kalpoe from Suriname, very obviously know exactly what happened to Natalee Holloway.

When Aruba Polis learned the first night Beth & "Jug" Twitty and friends were on Aruba that Joran and the Kalpoes were the last ones seen with Natalee Holloway, they chose to believe the "story" about the "security guard" told by the three young men, and the primary suspects were not detained, Joran's apartment and the boys homes were not searched, and the automobiles were not impounded. No evidence was collected from the van der Sloot property or the Kalpoes that early morning only hours after Natalee's "disappearance."

I'll never forget Aruba top cop Jan van Statten saying, "How could I do that to my best friend's son?"

Dutch failed judge-in-training pappa Paulus told errant son Joran and Surinamese buddy Deepak to keep quiet, to not "say anything." They are evidently heeding that advice. So far...not one of them has satisfactorily explained Natalee Holloway's "disappearance."

According to Dutch prosecutor Karin Jannsen, Aruba's attoney general, Dutch failed judge-in-training pappa Paulus van der Sloot told son Joran and Deepak Kalpoe in a poolside meeting at his home the day after Natalee Holloway "disappeared," "When there is no body, you don't have a case."
The Mountain Brook High School students I've seen on television have very evidently not told the whole truth, possibly because the FBI or someone has cautioned them not to talk about certain things. I know when young people are being completely open and honest. I also know when they are being evasive, "editing" their conversation before speaking, withholding information, being dishonest and deliberately not telling everthing they know.

And I know what actually goes on in Carlos & Charlie's on Aruba. It's a wild and raucous "party" place.

Not one "nice, sweet, innocent" person of any age goes into Carlos & Charlie's on Aruba, hangs out there for hours, and stays until "closing time" with the "booty dances" and "body shots" for free booze, the "simulated sex" and other shenanigans onstage, the "dirty dancing" between patrons, drugs readily available inside and on the sidewalk outside, and all of the other decadent behavior without taking part in the "fun" activities. There's no other reason for anyone to be there. And every one of Carlos & Charlie's patrons drinks alcoholic beverages.

If you doubt those facts, just go into Carlos & Charlie's, and see for yourself.

I have copies of photographs illustrating all of the activities to which I refer, but some of them are too graphic, sexually explicit and offensive for me to post here. Of course, there's ample photographic evidence available on the worldwide web, maybe even some photos with Mountain Brook High School students and adult escorts in them.

Mountain Brook students were asked on television, "Drinking?" They admitted, "A couple." Well, I've heard that before from young people who got sloppily drunk in New Orleans area clubs. And none of the MBHS students that I have seen have even acknowledged drinking "Yard Longs." (See photos below.) Only "a couple" of "Yard Longs" is quite a lot of liquor.

All Mountain Brook High School students and adult escorts who made this year's trip to Aruba and hung out at Carlos & Charlie's need to come clean, and tell "the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth." Or stay off television until they can. Hopefully, they have been completely truthful with the FBI.

For the sake of Natalee Holloway and her family, Mountain Brook students, escorts and parents need to be completely open and honest, especially with the FBI, T. J. Ward and Investigative Consultants International, and Arthur E. Wood, a former U. S. Secret Service agent who is heading Jossy Mansur's DIARIO and The Aruba Daily investigation.

Thanks to the internet, the debauchery that is Carlos & Charlie's is known worldwide, and countless photos abound.

Natalee Holloway was reportedly one of the first to get up on the stage and dance in front of the crowd. When Joran van der Sloot walked into Carlos & Charlie's, Natalee reportedly tried to get him to come up and dance with her, and was reportedly disappointed when Joran did not go up on the stage and dance with her. If true, was anyone showing a special interest in her at that point?

Natalee was reportedly doing Bacardi 151 "body shots" with at least one male. I'm told that for one to do a "body shot"...one must lie down on his or her back, preferably on a bar, and allow liquor to be poured into their navel cavity. Then a member of the opposite sex drinks the liquor, lapping it up like a dog. If that report is true, who was that male?

Did Natalee participate in a Wet T-Shirt Contest, placing third, at Mambo Jambo in the Royal Plaza Friday night, May 27? If she did, was anyone showing any kind of special interest in her afterwards? If so, who? And did Deepak make a brief stop at Mambo Jambo the early Monday morning Natalee "disappeared?" If so, why?

Who was the man with whom Natalee is reported to have had a meal, if any?

Was Natalee or any other MBHS girl ever approached by anyone claiming to be a model or talent agent of any kind? If so, who, from where, and representing what company?

Did any MBHS student hear anyone say anything about "Mr. Pink" or "Pink Productions?"

We need the whole truth. Nothing less is acceptable.

I am particulary concerned about what really occurred inside and outside Carlos & Charlie's Sunday night, May 29, and early Monday morning, May 30. I am very interested in anything that anyone may have seen and/or heard on Aruba between the hours of 1 and 5 AM. The least little thing might be hugely important and contribute to a satisfactory conclusion of the Natalee Holloway "disappearance" case.

There are some questions that must be resolved, and some pieces are still missing from this mysterious puzzle.

Chief among them is this. Why are Arubans, especially Dutch citizens, so upset and even angry because a little heartbroken American woman is simply trying to find her missing daughter? Why haven't all Arubans seriously tried to help her? And I don't mean that one token day off they took to conduct a light surface search.

Some people on Aruba have information that would be helpful in the search for Natalee Holloway while others know exactly what happened to her. Why are they not coming forward? Do they not care about one small blonde teenage American girl? Do they not care about crime on their tiny island? Or are they personally involved in the corruption?

How many other girls have been drugged and sexually assaulted by Joran van der Sloot and his friends over the last couple of years? Some young ladies who personally experienced "Loverboy" Joran's method of operation are beginning to come forward. More need to tell Aruba authorities what happened to them.

Do you young ladies know that Joran has bragged about his conquests to his friends and acquaintances? Don't you think that it is time you helped stop this 6'5" criminal predator before more girls are victimized by Joran and his friends?

And why do the lawyers and everyone related to this case, including the Aruba Polis and Dutch government, get so concerned when Beth Holloway Twitty goes into Oranjestad's Internet Cafe, a public business, to have some photographs developed and talks with Deepak Kalpoe, one of the employees, while she waits for her prints?

F-Y-I, Aruba...Beth's visit is on videotape, so any of you criticizing, verbally attacking or filing papers against her are wasting your time alleging that she "threatened" Deepak or even raised her voice. She very clearly did not.

Many influential Dutch citizens are members of the Aruba Lions Club at http://www.arubalions.org/Member%20Area/member_roster_2004-2005.htm while some of the younger well-known names are members of Air Aruba Virtual Airlines at http://www.arubaaviation.com/fqpilots.html . Are some of the members' interests and goals different from the stated purposes of those two organizations? Many of those names have come up during the current investigation.

Aruba's now retired top Polis official Jan van der Straten failed to do his job early on, saying, "How can I do that to my best friends son?" He is Joran's Godfather, and has returned to Holland. Jan van der Straten very obviously deliberately undermined, diverted and obstructed the Natalee Holloway "disappearance" investigation. Why hasn't he been held accountable for his actions or inactions?

Are Prime Minister Nelson Oduber, believed to be a good man by many on and off Aruba, and Justice Minister H. Rudy Croes, respected by many on Aruba, actually involved with the corruption on Aruba and participating in the big cover-up? Are Oduber and/or Croes "in bed" with "mobsters?" Are Nelson and/or Rudy heavily involved with drugs, the sex trade and human trafficking? That has been alleged by some. (See ARUBA CRIME ARUBA PROBLEM at http://www.blogs.net/page/Dan_Hanchey )

How about Karin Jannsen, the Dutch prosecutor who is Aruba's attorney general? Is she really intent on charging and convicting the guilty in this case? Or is she, too, part of the big diversion and cover-up?

And what about the Dutch judiciary? A Dutch judge is brought over to Aruba from Curacao, and he promptly releases Dutch judge-hopeful Paulus who once worked with the judiciary on Curacao and "Tattoo" deejay Steve Croes who is from Curacao. Does anyone else find that questionable?

Carlos & Charlie's website at http://www.carlosncharliesaruba.com was quickly pulled down, cleaned-up, and completely re-done immediately after the Natalee Holloway "disappearance" case became an intensive and thorough investigation and attracted international interest.

Some of the people at Carlos & Charlie's are reportedly involved with "recruiting" girls for wild sex parties, involving known well-connected and wealthy "mobsters." One of those "mobsters" and his associates reportedly own hotels on Aruba, Curacao, elsewhere in the Caribbean and in other areas. There are rumors of wild orgies and taping of porn films, including "snuff" films, in a special room at the Holiday Inn on Aruba, as well at other locations.

Was one of the Holiday Inn rooms stripped of its carpet and re-done the day Natalee Holloway "disappeared?" If so, why? Could the bloody mattress that was found at the dump have come from that room? If so, why was there blood on it, whose, and why didn't the Aruba Polis have a sample of that blood analyzed?

Where is the manager of the Holiday Inn that reportedly "vanished"...and, if true, why has he apparently left Aruba?

We know the General Manager of the Marriott Hotel has reportedly just been "promoted" to a position in Mexico City, Mexico. Is the timing just coincidental to the "disappearance" of Natalee, or is there some other reason he's gone from Aruba?

Quite a few people have suddenly left Aruba for one reason or another. Why would anyone want to leave this "One Happy Island?" Could it be getting too hot for them...or their employers?

The General Manager of Carlos & Charlie's is Alberto Levy. Is he related to the Rafael Levy of Miami, Florida, who has reportedly been deeply involved in the worldwide online porn business, including child porn and "snuff" films? Are some of the employees of Carlos & Charlie's actively helping "recruit" girls for those "businesses?"

The internet contact at Carlos & Charlie's is Garrick Lacle who is also in charge of "Advertisement." Is he related to Contributing Editor Tito Lacle of Aruba Today newspaper which features sex ads?

Why does Aruba Today Editor-In-Chief Julia C. Renfro allow the porn in her publication, and why is Julia so quick to defend Aruba and apparently so ready to criticize the USA and Americans? I understand she went to Aruba from the USA more than a decade ago. Why, and at whose invitation? Was she running away from something or to a new lifestyle and/or lucrative career opportunity?

Aruba Today Contributing Editor Tito Lacle has a personal Profile page at http://profile.tickle.com/evM1hx4yr_GY_jqS which lists (or did list) Tickle member Ruben Trapenberg, a Dutch government official and spokesman, as a "friend." Ruben's personal Profile page at http://profile.tickle.com/y6cVdx27jEJNFCRy lists (or did list) Tito as a "Friend." Tito is single, and Ruben is "Married." Just how involved in each other's private lives are these two men, and what else might be a reason for their publicly evident closeness? If those Tickle sites are no longer available, why? Thankfully, I printed out and filed the Tickle pages of Ruben and Tito.

For the record...Ruben Trapenberg, the Dutch government spokesman on Aruba, has flat-out lied during the course of this "investigation." The primary example is when he said that the FBI has been fully involved "since day one." That is absolutely untrue. And the FBI is still not being allowed to fully participate. I think that Ruben has no real credibility whatsoever.

Why do some witnesses seem to suddenly change their stories after talking with or being talked to by people from Aruba Today?

What, if anything, do frequent Carlos & Charlie's "partiers" like Freddy "Locoman," always well-dressed Colombian Jaime Carrasquilla and other Joran friends have to do with Natalee Holloway's "disappearance?"

Is "lover boy" Joran a member of a "gang" called "The Pimps?" If so, who else is in that group? And are the stories about Joran and others putting drugs in girls drinks in order to have sex with them and/or to manipulate them into participating in a "gang-bang" true? Joran has reportedly bragged about his drugging and "scoring" to his peers.

And what about reputed drug dealer Lorenzo van Rijn? What role, if any, did he play in this tragedy?

What about Michael Posner at the Excelsior Casino? The Posner Group reportedly owns hotels and casinos on Aruba, Curacao and throughout the Caribbean. Is Aruba's Michael Posner the same Michael Posner that is an Associate of the Chicago "Outfit?" Is he still on parole, and is he still doing "business as usual?"

Do Posners still own businesses in Miami, Florida? If so, is that why Paulus van der Sloot, soon to be without judge-in-training income, recently visited Miami?

Or was Paulus' Miami visit in direct relation to the "disappearance" of Natalee Holloway and his currently imprisoned primary "suspect" son Joran? Did Paulus schedule a Miami meeting to arrange financing for son Joran's defense? Or was Paulus possibly summoned to Miami to discuss a quick resolution to this case? Some special interests would like the FBI, other investigators and the media gone from Aruba, so business as usual can get back to normal again.

Is it true that Joran van der Sloot has a line of credit at the Excelsior on Aruba and possibly in other casinos, and is Joran really a drug dealer or runner for Ponser? Could that be why Joran has so much money and/or that line of credit? He gets a lot of money and credit from somewhere. Could Joran van der Sloot, who reportedly is an amateur gambler and loses often, be playing and losing big to help the Posners launder money? And is Dutch pappa Paulus van der Sloot in on the laundering scheme, too?

And what happened to that Excelsior Casino Manager who "vanished" about the same time that Natalee Holloway "disappeared?"

Some fishermen reportedly saw what they thought was an Isuzu on the beach near the Marriott early Monday morning, May 30. The "Isuzu" could have actually been Paulus van der Sloot's Mitsubishi SUV, helping move a seriously ill or injured Natalee from the beach to the van der Sloot home or Natalee's body from a shallow grave near the Fishermen's Huts to dispose of it somewhere or someway that would make it much more difficult or even impossible to find.

If money was indeed twice withdrawn from Paulus' ATM account, it could have been to pay someone to help care for Natalee, to transport her or to bury or dispose of her body.

I believe that it is highly improbable that Joran van der Sloot did not actually cause and/or was not an active participant in the "something bad" that "happened to Natalee."

Paulus van der Sloot said, "I would do anything for my son." I believe him. But I do not believe that Dutch judge-hopeful pappa Paulus would become complicit in a cover-up or an accessory to rape and/or a homocide to protect anyone but his eldest son Joran.

Volunteering his time to assist Jossy Mansur's DIARIO and The Aruba Daily investigation of the Natalee Holloway "disappearance" case, retired U. S. Secret Service agent Arthur E. Wood, working on Aruba for almost two months, came up with a key witness whose testimony "kills the alibis" of the three main suspects. Wood said the Kalpoes should be rearrested.

Wood heard the jailhouse story of the domino game, involving Deepak Kalpoe. When another inmate commented that a relative told him about a gardener's claim that he had seen Joran, Satish and him on the dirt road near the Aruba Racquet Club between 2:30 and 3 AM the morning Natalee vanished, Deepak reportedly turned pale, became angry, threw his dominoes and left the game.

Wood and associates searched for a month for the gardener, a Colombian known only by his nickname. When they finally found him, the gardener repeated his story, telling how he had to veer way off to the side, then stop, because Deepak's car was blocking the road. He told Wood the three boys tried to hide their faces. The gardener said Joran, sitting in the driver's seat put his hand up beside his face, Deepak Kalpoe slid down in the right front passenger seat, and the third person, believed to be Satish, laid down in the rear seat. Arthur Wood convinced the gardner to go to the Polis.

"This kills their alibi. Their timeline is destroyed by this witness," Wood said, contradicting the claims of the three that they left Natalee Holloway on a nearby beach about 1:30 AM before they headed home.

Wood wanted the Polis to rearrest the Kalpoes. That hasn't happened.

What has happened since Wood's request? Well, the Colombian gardener told Aruba Polis what he saw that early morning. Then Aruba Polis threatened to arrest and deport the gardener, and he was missing for awhile. The Colombian gardener was finally found and forced to give his testimony before a Dutch judge in Aruba court with Aruba Polis present and the Dutch prosecutor and defense lawyers confronting and cross-examining him.

The Colombian gardener is the only witness in the Natalee Holloway "disappearance" case that I recall being required to appear before a Dutch judge and cross-examined by defense lawyers in the presence of Aruba Polis. Since Aruba and Dutch officials were not allowed to arrest and deport the gardener, was this an attempt to discredit and neutralize him and/or to deliberately intimidate him into changing his story?

Jossy Mansur says about Arthur E. Wood, "He has brought a lot of investigative knowledge to the case, and he has the respect of everyone. The man is a tremendous investigator. He's been busy day and night, talking with people undercover and bringing very good information forward."

If the gardener witness is correct, and I believe he is, why were the three young men sitting in the car on the dirt road by the Racquet Club between 2 and 2:30 AM early Monday morning, May 30, with Joran behind the wheel? Why did they all duck when the witness passed?

Could Natalee have been in the back seat with Satish or whoever? A possibility.

Were they waiting to meet with someone? Maybe. But Why? Could it have been someone to whom they were going to hand Natalee, or could it have been Dutch papa Paulus van der Sloot with Natalee's body on that blanket in the back of the Mitsubishi SUV?

And why did the three boys make so many trips in and out of that area, including the construction site across Smith Boulevard? Tools maybe? Forget something? Or just making sure whatever happened there could not be detected or had not been disturbed?

A dry pond is a good burial spot, especially the one behind the Aruba Racquet Club. It's easy to dig in the muddy bottom. The mud is what is called "quickmud," much like quicksand. Anything buried in the quickmud will slowly sink further down into the ground. Then, when the pond fills with rainwater, the weight of the water packs the quickmud down, smoothing out the surface of the muddy pond bottom and making a grave unnoticeable to passersby when the pond is again empty of water.

The muddy pond bottom must be probed several feet deep, well below the surface, to discover any body, Joran's shoe and/or any other evidence.

But the draining of the pond behind the Racquet Club has been stopped by Aruba Polis, according to police spokesman Edwin Comenencia, ending that search before the pond was emptied. An adequate search was not performed. Any evidence buried there would not have been uncovered by their shallow probing.

Are the Aruba Polis still deliberately obstructing and undermining the Natalee Holloway "disappearance" investigation as they so obviously did when Jan van Stratten was in charge, and are the Aruba Polis complicit in the corruption that is so seemingly evident on the tiny island?

Incidentally, the pond behind the Aruba Racquet Club that was partially drained is not the only pond in that area.

Someone whom I greatly appreciate (but may prefer not to be known) has pointed out to me that there is a house for rent across the dirt road from the Racquet Club. Who owns that house, and could Joran and friends enter that vacant home?

Does Joran have a key or keys to the Racquet Club where he is a member and which he frequents often?

The dirt road, Racquet Club and vacant home in Noord are directly across Smith Boulevard (1B/1A) from a construction area between the Marriott and the fishermen's huts, and hotel row, including the Holiday Inn, is only 3 minutes away by automobile.

Someone on Aruba has told me that the van der Sloots reportedly own other property in addition to their home, listed as Vacation Rentals, and they say that the van der Sloot home may also be available for rent or sale sometime soon. Are Dutch failed-judge Paulus van der Sloot and family getting ready to leave Aruba?

Deepak Kalpoe's car is reportedly his pride and joy, and his mother said that he was upset with what Natalee and Joran were doing in his back seat, described as petting and "kissing." I do not for a second think that their kissing would have upset him. I believe they were doing something that could result in a stain of some kind on his upholstery.

I believe that Deepak and Satish may very well have washed the car as soon as they arrived home. I think what they were washing from the interior of the car...if anything...was mud, some kind of bodily fluid and/or vomit...not blood which leaves traces that can be detected by modern forensic scientists, and I think the exterior might have gotten dirty on the dirt road near the Racquet Club where they and Joran were reportedly seen by a witness. If they were indeed party to a crime, they might have been trying to wash away any tell-tale evidence from the car and its tires.

Deepak reportedly keeps his sharp little Honda meticulously clean, and I do not think that he would wait until just before he was to go to work the next day before washing his car. He surely would not want any stains to have time to absorb or set on his car's interior.

I know that I wouldn't. And I have washed my car late at night, so I wouldn't have to do it the next morning.

Arthur E. Wood is reportedly the one who found the Aruba Landfill witness who says he notified Aruba Polis about what he saw two days after Natalee's "disappearance" seems to be very credible. If former Secret Service agent Wood believes him, so do I.

It was reported that the Landfill witness took a "lie detector test." I am told by T. J. Ward that the witness did not take a polygraph exam, but was subjected to a Layered Voice Analysis. While the witness continues to stick to his story, repeating it over and over again and not wavering, T. J. tells me there are some questions about some of the specific details and possible problems with parts of his testimony, so T. J. and company are continuing to investigate the Landfill witness story.

According to Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch, "He (the witness) goes to the Landfill for slavageable things. He apparently saw a vehicle, three people, a Jeep parked off someplace in the distance watching. Actually saw a machine come in, and he claims he actually saw the hair and breast and chest of a girl being buried there on Wednesday at 4:30 PM after Natalee Holloway was missing." Please note that was Wednesday, June 1, 2005, two days after Natalee "disappeared," and Aruba Polis did not act on his statement, a story that he has not changed as he has re-told it over and over again. Aruba Polis' walk-around occurred after the area had been covered by more piles of garbage.

Arthur Wood, Jossy Mansur and company got permits, rented a backhoe, and were searching for Natalee Holloway's body in the Aruba Environmental Landfill. But they were forced to stop from time to time when more "red tape" is required by the Dutch government on Aruba.

During one of those weekend breaks in their efforts, the searchers hard work was undone by the operators of the Landfill who reportedly refused to stop when asked, stating that Aruba Polis couldn't stop them, not that they would want to since the Aruba Polis have certainly not seriously helped search that dump. The Landfill operators reportedly emphatically stated that they work for the Dutch government. And the Landfill workers continued to bulldoze over and fill the holes dug earlier, sabotaging the efforts of searches to find any body or anything incriminating in that Landfill.

I believe that there must surely be damning evidence against someone who is very well connected in that Aruba Environmental Landfill. The serious attempts to obstruct, undermine, sabotage, stop and not allow any complete and thorough Landfill search indicates that some very powerful people on Aruba are very concerned about what will be found there.

Is that why the Dutch government on Aruba isn't actively helping or at least fully cooperating in the search of the Landfill?

And is that why the Dutch government and Aruba Polis haven't roped off the suspect area in that Landfill and prohibited everyone from dumping more garbage there, and why they haven't the Dutch government and Aruba Polis prevented the Landfill operators from pushing more layers of refuse on top of the search area?

The Netherlands government sent ships of the Dutch Navy, Dutch Marines and Dutch Air Force F-16s to allegedly search the island from the air. Why haven't they sent any of their Dutch military's construction battalions and equipment to the little protectorate to aid in the search of the Landfill? Or...was the purpose of that show of military force simply a statement of authority and supremacy over the citizens of Aruba, especially the local native populace, just before the island's election?

The Aruba Environmental Landfill needs to be peeled back layer by layer until a body and/or other evidence is found or proven beyond a shadow of doubt not to be there.

The Aruba Environmental Landfill is an International School of Aruba Environmental Class trip and project. Joran should be very familiar with the Aruba Landfill, its procedures and equipment. The students learn all about the Landfill, and how they layer and cover the refuse. And tractors are kept on-site, including one with a backhoe. Joran, Deepak and Satish would probably be very well aware of how one could best conceal a body in that Landfill in a way and in an area that would make it difficult for anyone to ever find it.

I've seen a white pickup truck and a red Suzuki Jeep-type vehicle with a white top on the van der Sloot property along with the white Mitsubishi SUV and a grey sedan. I have seen Dutch pappa Paulus driving the Suzuki, and I hear Joran sometimes illegally drives the pickup.

But there are many white pickups and Suzukis and some other white SUVs that are available and easily accessible on Aruba.

Every time someone mentions a pickup truck I think of the dead man and the pickup reportedly found at the cemetary, possibly near an incinerator or crematorium. I just can't recall the exact reported details. Nor can I remember when that reportedly occurred. I do not believe the Aruba Polis explanation about the man's wife killing him in their home,carrying the body out of the house, loading it into the truck, and then dumping it where it was discovered. Whoever did that needed a ride away from the scene. When did that happen, who really did it, and why?

One thing that always comes to mind is an old trick that has been used by some creative criminals worldwide in the past, burying a body or bodies on top of or under another body or bodies already entombed.

And I continue to receive reports that might indicate that Natalee could have been kidnapped and/or trafficked. It's possible, but not probable. But that is why the Holloway family is now offering a $1,000,000 reward for the safe return of Natalee and $250,000 for information leading to the recovery of Natalee's body. That one-million USDs for Natalee alive and two-hundred-fifty-thousand USDs for Natalee dead has produced more tips.

The search of the drained pond behind the Aruba Racquet Club has been stopped by Aruba Polis before anyone could dig down several feet deep in the pond bottom and find anything, but the one at the Aruba Environmental Landfill has continued sporadically...under the watchful eye of the Aruba Polis.

There are other areas that are being searched, others that need to be, more reportedly will be, and some areas are being re-searched by the new "search team," Palm Beach County, Florida, businessman Jim Knox; his "dog trainer friend", Fred Golba; and Fred's "search-and-rescue" dogs. Interestingly, their decision to join the search for Natalee came shortly after Paulus van der Sloot visited Miami, Florida, next door to Palm Beach.

Fred Golba takes credit for thousands of rescues and body finds around the world. He has been quoted as saying, "I am kind of in and out of jobs because I am always leaving for such missions. I know that is not the smartest thing to do, but I can't help it." Fred has also been quoted as saying, "To me, what is important is human beings."

Fred Golba is on the Commonwealth of Massacheusetts Department of Revenue Child Support Enforcement list of Delinquent Parents owing more than $10,000. That one fact contradicts Fred Golba's expression of concern for "human beings," and makes him appear to be irresponsible, uncaring, and not at all dependable.

Watching him on television, egotistical Fred Golba reminded me of that publicity seeking "searcher" from Canada who was featured on network television, shown "searching" the World Trade Center's Twin Towers rubble and turned out to be a big phony.

Fred Golba and his dogs may prove to be helpful. They may actually find Natalee. However, I personally have no faith in the integrity of any man who owes "more than $10,000" in Child Support payments. I hope he turns out to be a better man than I think.

Jim Knox, reportedly enjoying his semi-retired lifestyle in Southeast Florida, is said to be personally sponsoring this search effort, paying the expenses of both men and the dogs. Why? Is he simply that charitable? If so, great! But exactly who is Jim Knox? Isn't he the Jim Knox associated with floriculture and the FNGLA in Florida? And what is his real interest in the Natalee Holloway "disappearance" case on Aruba?

And is Michael Holloway of the Florida Nursery, Growers & Landscape Association related to Natalee's father, Dave Holloway of Meridian, Mississippi? Just curious.

Dutch failed-judge pappa Paulus van der Sloot who told son Joran and Deepak Kalpoe "when there is no body you don't have a case," is still not allowing anyone to properly search the van der Sloot property. The previous Dutch prosecution and Aruba Polis "search" was only in areas that Paulus said they could look. He has steadfastly refused to allow a free and thorough search of his family's property, especially the back yard and reported well. I think a totally innocent man would enthusiastically welcome any search that could help clear him.

However, T. J. Ward and I have begun to believe that Natalee Holloway is probably no longer on Aruba. Indications are that Natalee is dead, and that the disposal of her body was arranged by Paulus van der Sloot personally. Joran, Deepak and Satish may not know what happened after Natalee died, but they know exactly how, when, where and why she died...if she is actually dead.

Paulus van der Sloot is obviously just waiting for the expected release of his son Joran from detention on September 4, and he and his family are prepared to make a quick departure from Aruba and any possible prosecution for the kidnapping, rape and/or murder of Natalee Holloway. I do not believe Holland would extradite any Dutch citizen, like van der Sloot or van der Straten, back to Aruba.

17-year-old juvenile giant Joran van der Sloot, the self-described "Loverboy," reportedly has an open line of credit in casinos on Aruba. He very openly gambles with full family, business, law enforcement, judicial, governmental and public knowledge. Therefore, I firmly believe that there is much criminal involvement in this tragic scenario, as well as other activities, between the van der Sloots and friends, Jan van der Straten and others in Aruba law enforcement, possibly Karin Jannsen and/or the Dutch prosectors' office, Justice Minister Rudy Croes, some in the Dutch judiciary and maybe even Prime Minister Nelson Oduber and some hotel and casino owners, employees, and organized crime on Aruba, Curacao and in other areas.

We've all heard the stories about Joran van der Sloot having "nine (9) lawyers," and wondered how his family could afford them. Now...I hear they may be paid by the Mansurs. Jossy, if that is true, why? Of course, I fully realize that it could be one way for you and DIARIO to be assured that you know everything the defense knows and exactly what they are planning. Maybe that's a smart move for a local businessman who is very politically involved in a community of less than 100,000, especially since you have the largest local newspaper on Aruba and Curacao.

But is the United States FBI's involvement in the Natalee Holloway "disappearance" investigation going to help or hurt the prosecution of the suspects, if they are ever charged with crimes? According to my sources, "Dutch law prohibits transmission of any information to any foreign police force that is likely to lead to the arrest of a Dutch citizen." That is an obvious deterrent and an obstruction that would be extremely difficult for the prosecution to overcome in a Dutch court.

And I have been a little disappointed by some of Beth and families recent decisions. The clandestine videotaping of her confrontation with Deepak (while good documentation of what transpired in the Internet Cafe), the "searcher" that is a "dog trainer" who owes more than $10,000 back child support according to the state of Massachusetts (and should pay it), and the recent hiring of a former Aruba Assistant Attorney General as their lawyer (who seems to represent the Dutch and Aruba instead of the Holloway/Twittys, based on one of her recent television appearances) are not smart moves in my opinion...not if you want the Dutch government and prosecution, Aruba law enforcement and the people of the "One Happy Island" to help you resolve this "disappearance" case satisfactorily. But I fully understand Beth and the families' frustration and desperation
Joran van der Sloot is a criminal, and his Dutch father Paulus van der Sloot is an accessory, whether indictable or not.

A criminal is anyone who violates the law of the land, in this case Aruba. It is illegal for minors to drink alcoholic beverages and gamble on the little island of Aruba. Aruba law requires that one must be 18 years of age or older to do either.

17-year-old Joran van der Sloot is shown in photographs and on videotape drinking and gambling, sometimes in the company of his Dutch pappa Paulus van der Sloot.

When a 6'5" tall, 190 pound, 17-year-old young man repeatedly violates one, two, or more laws without restraint or discouragement of any kind being shown him by his family, friends, business owners, law enforcement, prosecution, judiciary, or the citizens, that young man tends to feel that he is invincible and can get away with anything without any kind of real negative consequences or serious repercussions. He actually tends to feel "empowered" and feels that he has a "license" to do anything that he desires, unhindered and unpunished, because everyone "approves"...or, at the very least, does not object to his deviant behavior.

Joran van der Sloot is a criminal, guilty of violating Aruba law. Joran's influential Dutch pappa Paulus has publicly condoned his juvenile son's activities, so Paulus van der Sloot is complicit in his son's illegal activities.

That is indefensible, whether by Aruba authorities, Dutch officials, or citizens on Aruba, in the Netherlands, or anywhere else. The photographic evidence has been displayed on the worldwide web, and countless privately owned photographs and videotapes document many of young Joran's escapades, including his drinking and gambling. Numerous photographs and videotapes were shot by citizens of Aruba, and many more were photographed and videotaped on Aruba by tourists from around the world.

Joran van der Sloot is a proven liar. Anyone who will lie about one thing will likely lie about another. And one who willfully and often violates one, two, three, or more laws, suffering no reprimand or penalty, will not likely hesitate to violate more laws, no matter how serious the crime.

Deepak Kalpoe is guilty of lying for his "friend" Joran, and may be guilty of much more.

Satish Kalpoe may have lied to support his older brother Deepak and "friend" Joran. He too may be guilty of much more.

And Dutch pappa Paulus van der Sloot, the failed judge, is apparently guilty of much more than lying and/or formulating a lie. His past is riddled with rumors of corruption, and some of his "associates" and "friends" are of questionable character and reputation.

While these facts do not guarantee that Joran and Paulus van der Sloot and Deepak and Satish Kalpoe are guilty of rape, kidnapping and/or murder, it very definitely indicates that they are indeed capable of committing such a crime with a reasonable expectation of getting away with it.

We attentive Americans and concerned citizens of the world seek justice for Natalee Holloway, and we will settle for nothing less than a satisfactory conclusion to this "disappearance" case.

Aruba, Netherlands Antilles, and Netherlands...we are watching. Get it right.

Hi

Well I have been following this since the first day she was reported missing. There are many theories and suspicions of what happened. I know for a fact that Joran, Deepak, Satish, and The runaway judge are involved because how many times can you change a story. Here is my theory or theories.

First, they get her wasted on alcohol and maybe slip here a GHB type drug. Then they take here to the fisherman huts and proceed to rape her. Someone else becomes involved maybe this new guy they had arrested and they decide to experiment in murdering someone because they already seem untouchable. They throw her into the shark fed waters and get back to their homes to make it look like nothing happed and Joran's daddy picks him up showing he has an aliby after confessing what he did. Paulis Van Der Sloot meets with all involved parties and instructs them what to do if they are pinched. Joran, Deepak, and Satish finally get arrested and they make up a bunch of stories sending police on a wild goose chase. Paulis checks the ocean to make sure no evidence is floating in the water. Now with the arm that has washed up on the coast of Venezula, Deepak and Satish are sweating it. I have a gut feeling it is her arm. If it is bye bye assholes.
With the brothers re-arrested and a new suspect in custody I believe the heat is on and they will all turn on each other. There might be a 15% chance of them selling her off to some sex-slave industry since they are into gangbang and taking pictures of it. Could be in Colombia or some other South American country who hates us. They need funds to continue to party and have a good time. But probably not. We well find out soon after they interigate all of them again.
Until then Boycott Aruba!

I also have been following this story from the beginning, read most every blog, and visited Aruba in July to see things myself. I have observed (which I have unreported on up to this point) some very unusual and interesting things while there. You know when you see something, remember something, then later, when all the "other" details" start emerging, something starts to make sense? In this case, I am very clear when I see what happened.

These are my final analysis:

- There was indeed a cover-up. The judge-that-tried-and-failed-so-called-father-to-the-rapist-son is a main person because of his knowledge of how to get around the law, for one, his smugness in the present saying his son is "completely" innocent (even an idiot would know that his son is involved, my God), and his insistance to thwart any mission (as well as the two brother's daddy, because he owns 1 of 3 companies that have equipment that could find the body, yet amazingly, keeps them from doing so) to uncover where the body was buried, or where the body could possibly have been moved! Who WAS the wimpy guy that partied until the wee early morning hours with Natalee until her untimely (or timed) death, who also was one of a group who raped and gangbanged a 14 year old girl unconscienciously, and then supposedly took a DVD and sold it of the acts, who also was one that illegally underage gambles in "daddy's" home town... and the law in Aruba is "ok" with that!! Who was the guy that has untold supplies of money coming in to show the tourist females a "good" time then accost and victimize them sexually morally and unwillingly? And who is the government that is allowing this to happen on their "happy island"?

I personally think some on the Aruban police know exactly what happened, and because of the tourist trade, don't want any one else to know. Why would the police have offered "no explanation" to the woman that 1st found human bones (with flesh still on them) while snorkeling and turned them into the police less than 2 weeks after Natalee dissappeared? Wouldn't an honest government have cleared those bones as evidence instead of either hiding them or destroying them, never-to-be-seen again? Why would an honest government 1st admit that they know of a body, they have a confession, then quickly denounce that such an admission was done by them? Why would an honest government allow several WEEKS before they "carefully" started to investigate the father-son sex house, and their vehicles? Allowing time to dispose of evidence, no doubt?? Heck, maybe they even bought them a new car as a substitute one, then junked the old car with the evidence? USA can trace a serial number of an axle and track down the bomber of Oklahoma City... Aruba cannot contain 3 young perverts (or more) and a powerful judge-to-be on a 20 x 6 mile island?

I said I visited Aruba. I took two rides, one a taxi from the hotel I was staying at (not too far away from Marriott) to the airport; and the other, a ride to and from my rental jeep for when I did a little sight seeing for a day. What I learned from the drivers would make your head spin. The government down there, and in particular, their leaders within the island, are very feared, for they do not allow "talk-back". They do not cater to "foreigners" and they hate "immigrants", even from the Netherlands. One of them told me that unless one was actually BORN AS A ARUBAN, on the island, the law will not protect you. Natural born citizens of the ISLAND are PROTECTED. Period. Disagree with that, you dissappear. They will turn their back on you.. I can tell much more, but will keep the rest to myself; they both had personal stories, and they both are bery happy to be employed, to keep their mouth shut to "things", and will enjoy life as long as "they look the other way", then the government will "do the same".

I am convinced Natalee is dead, and that more than one person knows about it in the government there. And the natural born citizens of Aruba can go free and do as they please. In THIS life, any ways. God will reward those that committed the crimes against Natalee. I only wish that Natalee's family could get some resolve and some peace and allow them to grieve and put Natalee where they should have been able to 2 weeks after her dissappearance... in her marked grave, on home soil. Instead, Aruba leaves it as a "missing person" case. Unbelievable.

I challenge Aruba police and government to solve this case, as well as the 1999 "dissapearance" of the other USA guy that vanished in mid air while in Aruba. If they cannot, they deserve to be boycotted as an island that Americans no longer see as safe, nice, or neighborly to tourists. So-called democracy? I think not. KGB is how I felt these people are living. I know a little about KGB too, because my USA born uncle served in Moscow through the 60's and 70's as a foreign CPA. There are only so many secrets you can tell to keep living.

The honest people there (of which I have met several) are actually very hard-working, trustworthy, people. It is too bad that ALL of Aruba is getting a bad rap for the acts of a few dishonest, money-hardened, set of rapists, killers, and who-knows-what-else-they-are-over-their-head in.

The island was beautiful. Too bad situations like this spoil it. I will not go back.

Prayers for Natalee's survivors family and friends. You all are true. Kids get drunk and do stupid things all the time. I remember those days and count myself a survivor. I had extra angels I guess. Thank you, God.

NOONE deserves torture and death that Natalee endured.

Until then Boycott Aruba!
&
I will not go back.

Just from the last two posts...

Thanks, please let all american know NOT to go to Aruba (pls also add The Netherlands)
No-one wants you there, go loot in NO :)

And rememeber;
NO crime >>> NO body >>> NO evidence >>> NO proof >>>
NO courtcase >>> NO conviction >>> NO Yanks on Aruba !!!

Bonnie asked if the Mike Posner of Aruba is the same Mike Posner from the Chicago Mob. The answer is yes. He did some time in the 80s, but after his release the Chicago outfit rewarded him by putting him in charge of their Aruba interests. In Chicago he was identified in the newspapers as "The Vice Kingpin of the Northwest Suburbs." He ran gambling, adult bookstores, strip clubs and prostitution.

"Tante Bet" sounds like a name that is alias to one the guys that hung out with Van der slut. "bet" for sure. I agree with Nunya, leave New Orleans alone. Also leave the bottle alone while you type "tante" it affects your intelligence. Don't blame Americans. "No body" does not equal "no crime", it means "no case closed". Hey "Tante" that is American with a CAPITAL "A", dumb a$$, just like Aruba is capitalized. Have some respect. You did not say where you were from, but you should visit America some time just to see that we are the land of the free, and home of the brave. Maybe a little screwed up on occasion, but a good people and a good land. I bet some time in your life time, you will see that America will come to your aid, our your country, or in some way, affect your life positively. Do NOT allow isolated events to overcome the good. And with that said, you read into it that I want to stay away FOREVER from Aruba, I say "Aruba, wake up, do something about your crime wave, and fix it now. If it is mob bosses running your island, fix it. If it is unjust officials corrupting your government, try and fix it. THEN, I will come back, until then, I do not feel safe there as an American or as a free person." Yeah, I know, America has some of the same issues and corruption here, unfortunately. Muggings rapes stabbings and more happen across USA every day and night. Sin sucks. And I cannot say that big cities in America are not also run in some way by mobs, or illicit local governments. Some? Again, question mark. But at least America eventually RECOGNIZES where the issues and problems are, and try and do something about them. Take for instance, the new Homeland Security chief. HE is under "fire" and it looks like he is incompetent. Maybe he is. Maybe he isn't. But in time, we will find out. New Orleans did not get handled well. Maybe we need to look into our own hearts and understand that things are bigger than anyone ONE of you, or me. It's time we work together. ALL OF US, as a WORLD ENTITY.

I will start by apologizing for what I said earlier in this writing and say "Tante Bet", if you are man enough, understand we all have differences, but we should not be on separate sides. Unless the devil is making you talk. Or you just need a place to sound off. Don't take it out on America, and I will not take it out on Aruba. Like I said, I meet some of the finest Aruban island people around. Aruba in general deserves better than this, but this time, it is in THEIR control. Don't diss America.

Oops. I said the Homeland Security Director was "let go". I found out I goofed. It was the FEMA director I was actually referring to, and in a blog, was inaccurate initial story. Both are named 1st names "Michael". Later I also found out that there are about 7 or 8 "managers" just within FEMA, so hence the confusion. Everyone from terrorist experts, to hurricane experts, to other natural and unnatural tragedy responsibilities. I did not have my facts straight on that one, sorry. The Louisiana FEMA director Michael Brown was relieved of his Gulf Coast duties, but amazingly, still "director" of FEMA and reassigned back to DC. I guess we will see how long that lasts, does not sound like too many people are behind Michael Brown within Bush cabinet. Anyways, wanted to correct that statement.

I have done a lot of surfing like many others I am sure....
Didn't Natalee talk and have dinner with Michael Posner,owner of the EXCELSIOR CASINO at the HI ?
My research shows that he DOES have former maffia ties to the mob in Chicago, and has done time.

Do the Aruba LE have their heads up their buts, or are they trying to protect this gentleman ? I do not understand any of this......What do u think ? I think that he could have VERY easily taken her to Venzuela, as he IS ALSO MISSING TOO, AND IT WAS THE SAME WEEK ???????

Good job, Stefani! I think you might be on to something.... If a body has not been uncovered yet, and police first reported that a body "may have been" there, but not any more, and can't find a body now, yet maintain that the dogs and the sniffin' technology to find cadavors hasn't either produced a body or hasn't proved that there is no body, I wonder if the cover up isn't just that..... that there is no body and that the body has been gone off Aruba because the powerful and mighty mob people have taken this island's completely politics over (for many years, no doubt) and MADE UP the story of a death, when in fact, there wasn't? A run on sentence, I know... Do you have more, Stenfani? Still, smells like Aruba cover-up though. That Natalee does not deserve. Poor girl. Her one night of fun turned into a life time of horror. How many people out there still think that Natalee is still alive? I am about 50-50 right now, thanks to Stefani (which is a good thing, because I WAS at 95-5 that she was dead. You shine hope, Stefani).

nunya~
the post u were unsure of is that of none other than the "notorious" "TANTA BET from Aruba. She LOVES to call Americans Yanks, and insists that she KNOwS that her beloved fellow Dutch dude, JORAN is 100% innocent. I have read her less than desirable posts in MANY blogs. She is a piece of work. She rcommends for USA to stay in the USA, not thinking that Aruba depends on the Americans to feed their children with our tourism. I think we NEED to Boycott Aruba UNTIL we get a resolution as to where NAtalie Holloway is OR WHAT happened to her by WHO ! There is currently too much estimation and cover ups regarding her disappearance. I was shocked when I read in other news ites on the net, that Nat is NOT the 1st American to disappear in Aruba ! Amy Bradley also same situation and MANY Americans do not even realize that ! Amy came up missing in '97 and her parents have suffered without answers and resolution ever since. SOmeone is hiding something and it is not the USA!

Tante Bet~ U R SUCH A COMPLETE idiot. A total waste on the earth !
For your low IQ info I will tell u that looting took place in New Orleans largely so that people could S U R V I V E ~ many looted to just steal ! This was a natural disaster ! It was OUT OF OUR control and nothing short of G O D (you know the dude u say is for fools) could have prevented the Hurricane ! ALL of us learn from our mistakes, and I hope u will also ! We handled the next Hurricane disaster plan with the utmost efficiency (RITA) so efficient that after Katrina hit, and we were overwhelmed with TOO large of a proportion of calamity ~ that we were ready way before Rita hit. I must say that I personally am PROUD to be an American. I would not want to have been born anywhere else in the world. IU am an arrogant American, because, we have problems, but the U S A in many respects does have it all, and we are VERY progressive !Continue to promote a Boycott to Aruba, encourage us "Yanks" to remain in the USA, and u and MANY others, until Natalie is returned to Beth U JUST MAY have to depend on social agencies for basic necessities in life, because NO tourists and NO economy in Aruba. It will suffer. I as an American citizen feel perfectly within my personal conscience to avoid travel to Aruba. We lost Natalie Holloway and received no pertinent answers, and we also lost AMY BRADLEY in 1997, and rec. NO answers. 2 families are still suffering without any closure, unnecessarily because of a corrupt Dutch government.
_________________________________________________________________________

I personally would be ashamed of the my country's officials who call themselves "professionals" who cannot even resolve what happened to the tourist, whom they failed to kee4p safe while being a visitor in their country in May. Shame on the Dutch government. You need a serious revision of government, to S T O P your incessant corruption ! But any country who has LEGAL euthanasia to HUMANS(NOT pets) HUMANS ! ! ! ! ( SOULS CREATED IN THE IMAGE OF THE LORD ! ) LEGAL abortion, LEGAL drug usage, LEGAL Prostitution ~ Bottom line with decaying Dutch morals what more could the USA expect than NO answers about Natalie's disappearance. Condoning these issues which I mentioned does NOTHING except make a country CORRUPT ~ highly rich in moral decay of epidemic proportions !

Might I add that we in the USA are a society against drug usage. We have laws AGAINST it ! Some use it illegally. We as Americans realize the high ramifications it causes in all aspects. There is NO doubt in my mind that the smoked dope usage there legally have caused a very LAX attitude about WHAT is right and WHAT is wrong. Brain cells have deteriorated to the point of not knowing what you are supposed to and accomplishing it ! LE cannot even efficiently investigate a crime efficiently against an AMERICAN citizen. SHAME ON ARUBA ! SHAME on Tante Bet and all Dutch citizens who attempt to discredit the USA with their malicious slanderous comments !

Check this out ! READ !!!!!

TOO Kewl !!!!

Scared Monkeys
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« George Bushes Call for Conservation Has Some Tourist Destinations NervousBeth Holloway Twitty and Joe Mammana Meets with Attorneys in Philadelphia
by Scared Monkeys

Remember those words that Joe Mammana mentioned a couple of weeks ago?

“I just want the people of Aruba to know that Natalee Holloway’s mom, Beth Twitty and Joe Mammana are coming back to Aruba. Hell is coming with them, we did not forget Natalee Holloway�.

Philadelphia businessman, philanthropist and Philly’s Avenging Angel, Joe Mammana and Beth Holloway Twitty planned to meet with an attorney here to discuss her options in the stalled investigation of the disappearance of Natalee Holloway in Aruba.

With help from a local businessman, the mother of an Alabama teen who disappeared on a class trip to Aruba planned to meet with an attorney here to discuss her options in the stalled investigation.

Beth Holloway Twitty, mother of Natalee Holloway, told the Philadelphia Daily News for Wednesday’s editions that “we just feel like if we just continue, that something will break.�

On her meeting with an attorney, she said, “I want to see what my options are, and how do I go about pursuing those.�

Joe Mammana, who has contributed $250,000 in reward money in Holloway’s case. He has also contributed $100,000 reward for the missing 26 year old, nine months pregnant Amanda Jones. He played a major role in the $100,000 reward increase in the Latoyia Figueroa case. Mammana also gave $50,000 to the Julia Popovich reward as well. Joe Mammana has been known for his no nonsense Sicilian approach to practical situations. As Joe has stated in the past he does not call it “reward money, he refers to it as “bounty money“.

“I don’t call it reward money,� Mammana said. “I call it bounty money. I’m a vengeful person. I don’t believe in an eye for an eye; I believe in two for one.�

Joe Mammana arranged for the meeting for Beth Twitty to got to Philadelphia to meet with an attorney, whom have not been identified.

“We’re going to hound and harass these people forever,� Mammana told the newspaper, referring to Aruban officials and “anybody else involved with this that we feel did not cooperate and help us.�

This really is an interesting mix and Mammana’s words are sure to create some worries and comments from Aruban officials. Why do I get the feeling that Joe Mammana is not going to put up with much nonsense?

This entry was posted on Wednesday, September 28th, 2005 at 6:08 pm and is filed under Natalee Holloway, Missing Persons, Aruba, Beth Twitty. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

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September 28th, 2005 at 8:02 pm
I wish that Joe Mammana could be cloned. The USA needs MORE concerned, caring, loving men like himself !Being successful financially he gives of his $$ and his time. He is a God send to the world, and a wonderful, unselfish human being.Being of Cicilian decent, I feel that he can successfully communicate his desires on Twitty’s behalf for the return or resolution of their daughter, Natalie. Yes, he was a “bad� boy once, but his life TODAY in my opinion is A powerful example of HOW one can turn themselves around and become the high integrity individual that he is today. I have never met him, but would be honored to. I admire his qualities and consider him to be my 21st century hero !We all have our heroes and idols, my money is on Joe to get resolution to this long overdue mystery for Beth ! God bless you Joe, I will be praying for u to be successful and endure this one also, and a candle will be lit at mass on Sat. pm for u !!!!!!! GO JOE GO !!!

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See boys and girls,
This is why you don't go whoring in the third world.

She was not a whore...she was a girl that trusted the wrong people and was in the wrong place at the wrong time. Victim of circumstance if you may!

Natalie's behavoir at C & C's was NO different than many other teen girls that I have seen.Have some pity for her and the family. Is Aruba or any other country for that matter supposed to keep their tourists safe ? If they r NOT safe, should they NOT investigate professionally, and not as corruption and in a Keystone Cops method ???

Chewbacca ~ Think before you type.

Yes my name is Natalie Holloway, and I'm going to travel abroad while my home county is the most hated country in the world.

While abroad, I'm going to enjoy the nightlife of many locales, and it's men. Tee hee! Because I'm 18 and I've travelled around before. Trust me! I know what I'm doing.

They'll see that I'm cute and give the best head

It is my theory that that very tall boy's father might be married to a very frigid woman, and asked his son to bring him a young version of his wife. I think that the father wanted a virgin to de-flower. When she woke up, I think that she went into shock, and I think that they took her to a psyco ward in a hospital. They might have dyed and cut her hair. I think that she is in a hospital somewhere, and she can not remember her name.

blondie~
Are u serious ?

Also Aruba is NOT a "3rd world country."
IF they were not covering up a mess,
they are intelligent enough to handle this Holloway situation.
Their corrupt ways won't let them.

AND.......if I had the former "CAPTAIN" of the Good Ship Lollipop working for me in Aruba, I would be able to handle every corrupt and EVIL thing. The maffia has NO conscience in its organozation of EVIL activities !

MICHAEL POSNER KNOWS what happened to the Holloway girl, and could tell every detail, I know it. The Maffia is still powerful. We did not want him in Chicago, or the USA, so off to Aruba to carry on his E V I L ways ! AND>>>>>>>>>>>>he IS succeeding at them !

1. I think the truth will probably surface later on because all 3 boys are young & will eventually let it slip to someone -- like when Martha Moxley [the girl neighbor of the Kennedy's] was killed. Since the pressure is on now, everyone will clam up.

2. If memory serves, Arubans bury above ground in little vaults that are painted and decorated. Hard to imagine sticking her in one successfully without disturbing its look OR having people see you working on doing it "just right."

3. Shark stomachs have yielded everything under the sun, including lots of things swallowed whole. If there were more than one shark, forget about remnants.
4. Another young female has attested to date rape by Joran. [Pathetic if you have to resort to that just to get laid.]

5. Natalie was last seen with the 3 boys. Posner & Daddy van der Sloot may have helped after the fact or maybe not, but they didn't start it. Three native boys are enough to do pretty much anything.

6. Apologies to all the families of non-white girls who disappear, never to be seen again. Your loss is no less tragic.

Great comment Jud ! hehe Check this out. VERY intersting reading on Natalee's disappearance I promise u !

http://seedyrummusings.blogspot.com/

Mothers, teach your daughters well.

And sometimes those daughters who have BEEN taught WELL STILL NEED to test the waters, some return to the good ways, some are LOST forever !

The pressure is on and I do BELIEVE that the bird is going to sing....S O O N !!!

Great detective job Stefani! Maybe they should hire you to get this thing closed and the slime out of Aruba and the Netherlands!

Read this next link--- 55 rapes over 3+ years, just in the Bahama's !!! There's a guy that's trying to expose these crimes and make them more internationally noticed and eliminated before we as Americans (80% of their tourist industry) send our teenage daughters there or we ourselves go to unsuspecting places that overserve drinks (mainly to females), make the beach scene as if we stepped into another place in America, but have no laws to protect us.

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/10/10/Worldandnation/In_the_Bahamas__rapes.s...

A SMOKING GUN AND MORE GOODS ON THE ARUBANS ? SO SHANGO LIKE.........

http://64.69.33.211/nh/Evidentiary-Review.html

OK come on ! LIVEN up !!!
What do all of u think og SHANGO'S RIDDLE ? Any signifigance to the disa[[earance of Natalee Holloway ? WOuld love to hear opinions !

I have followed this site for quite a while. I no longer feel all that wonderfully comfortable posting a comment because of the little come backs that one particular person keeps adding behind others' comments. Don't get me wrong, some of the comments are rude. Also, don't get me wrong, we all converse sometimes and are welcome to post responses anytime, appariently. However, it is not neccessary to run to the computer and post a comment correcting or tsk-tsking most other posts. I liked it a lot better before...

When someone is calling NH an ugly name, that is rude. When they are speaking their opinion of a risky topic in tasteful language, it is not neccessarily anyone's place to correct or scold them. In other words, when someone says it in a decent manner, it isn't another poster's place to jump in and jump on them for daring suggest a theory that might place some of the responsibility on NH.

Just the opinion of a grown woman who doesn't need correcting...The main reason I don't usually keep up with boards is because there is always someone who shows up and thinks they are the moderator when they purportedly aren't. Can't we just please let people post without a quick come back correcting them for their opinions.

DB I hear u and I understand completely !IF these posters know so much, why isn't Natalee found yet ? We all have a theory and I respect anything that anyone says about it. I listen and take it into consideration. Many minds bring MANY solutions to this agonizing, lengthy mess ! Bring it on ! I love NEW opinions and we get the solution, who knows ! There are air takers and there are care takers !

People forget that Bush is a COWBOY

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051019

The lions have been ambushed

Yup Pres. Bush is a cowboy, and as for Natalee's disappearance, I say to Aruba that WE Americans are lighting the fires !!!!!!!!

and if you read between the lines, we grabbed a ship, $650,000,000.00 worth of cocaine, and 9 witnesses in American custody...at the same time Beth was meeting with Condi......I'd say that oughtta give the FBI the hammer and the block

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051019

per Shango, looks like Lorenzo's feeling the heat and the FBI is closing down the whole operation....the lions have become the hunted

with the new antiterrorism laws, it is a very bad time to be a lion on the run

Is Jossy casting an accusatory stone in the last paragraph here?

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/2005/10/government-has-its-hand-over-...

I honestly feel that Jossy Mansur is playing both sides, the good and the bad.As for the Posner character, well I felt that he helped to dispose of Natalee, along with Lorenzo. Lorenzo is the rumored 1/2 brother of URINE> This entire investigation and situation with the missing American is a complete fiasco. It is a joke !

Hi... This is really sad. I hoipe she will return alive, but I know she won't.

Stefani is right, this has been handled by both sides very badly.

http://www.dicemen.net/

Columbo ~ I went to Dicemen.net and don't get it. Please explain ! Thanx !!!!

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm

The DiceMen must be questioned.

They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze

Mary who was not a virgin entered

http://www.dicemen.net/

Tonight on Fox News. Dompig live on the phone from Aruba said that he needs to question the Mountain Brook kids yet. What the hell is going on ? Are they again diverting the attention somewhere else ? In all probabilities I do not think that this case will ever be resolved, will it ??????????????

Don't worry Stef....looks like they are hunting lions and not scapegoats, and Deepak on tape will give LE another card to play:

Thought the same when the toothbrush DNA issue surfaced......but now it appears that the focus is the same with the MB re-interviews

"Girl comes to Aruba. Meets cool and crazy guy in C@$ino. Goes out with him. He declares that to be the case. Can’t deny it. It’s on tape. Everybody in the C@$ino knows the group of teens, they have been drinking in there for free the whole week.

After a couple of days girl meets another boy in the same C@$ino. Goes out with him. This makes first guy really mad. So mad he confronts second boy."

@=2
$=4
@$=24.....a 24 year old lion is being hunted

Also, Simian goes on to say that others across the pond know more than they are saying (MB)

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm

Follow the music
into the maze
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk
tell the cowboys!

Shango:
Van Rijn cannot be pressured
The FBI would close in on the whole operation
(this has begun)

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051019

Columbo ~Can it be ? LORENZO WEVER ???? 24? and works at the Casino ?????
I think that the fires are lit and burning very good at this point !!

If I had to guess I'd say that Lorenzo has been pressured and the FBI has closed in.....don't know if you noticed Beth met with Condi Rice at a college in Alabama while this operation was unfolding in the Carribean....makes me wonder ;-)

If this is the case, and I suspect that it is.....Lorenzo will be feeling the heat from both sides....the heat of a murder investigation has cost them a ship, 9 guys, and 650M in cocaine....to say the least, he had a serious lapse in judgement....perhaps using too much of his product....he should be very worried

also-look more closely at that last Simian post I mentioned:

"cool and crazy GUY in c@$ino......."

"later that week meets another BOY......."

the GUY is the one with the motive, the 5th suspect......not the BOY......the BOY is just a scapegoat

Enough of this BS already (to quote Deepak) If the truth is to be found out about what happened this is what to do. First kidnap Joran and tie the creepy bastard to a chair. Make it quite clear to him that he dont have a lawyer that he has no rights and then tell him straight. "Want the truth amd nothing else" If he gives one of his mealy mouthed answers about leaving Natalee on the beach unharmed take out one of his fingers with a hammer. Guaranteed after a max of three of his fingers gone he will be squealing the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Case solved. The problem with this world is that when evil is done there are too many crap headed lawyers around yelling about the rights of their clients and eventually the evil doers begin to look like the victims and vice versa

FBI has 9 witnesses that are of much more value to the people responsible for whatever happened to NH....they are holding a strengthened hand

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051019

see Beth on Greta THUR? seemed to hint at this.....check the transcript

We have a stronger hand, but in order for any of 3 to talk and tell us WHAT we NEED to hear about Natalee, we NEED her body to PROVE that whomever speaks, is speaking the truth !

Wherever the perps "dumped" her corpse needs to be told, to recover it if possible, or a trace of DNA. I think that those 9 will speak anything, except the truth of who is the LEADER, to get out of the current heat of the US LE, and back into the comfort of their dishonest capacities ! Someone has a strong hand here, and IT needs broken.Broken BEYOND repair, with no possibility of casting it to med, ever !! If not for future American girls, which is near impossible with the corruption involved with these men, but more so to find Natalee and restore some sense of dignity to her remains in the US, and to enable her Mother and family to iniate the grieving process properly.

BOYCOTT ARUBA and DUTCH products ? Absolutely I say until they return our American girl !

IVAN -- DUDE -- I LOVE YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well said, my friend. I could not agree more. Little fucker might want a taste of his own medicine. Why shouldn't he suffer like Natalie probably did? I have nothing but black thoughts for him.

Because I allowed the previous posts entered by myself to be linked to my professional website, I feel the need to set something straight.

Just FYI, the DB that has previously posted on here is a lady, and I don't have a wife. I feel it neccessary to comment on this as I don't want anyone to to confuse me, my website or my comments with phrases like "little f**cker". I would never compose a post utilizing the f bomb.
Thanks.

Um... yeah... DB... this isn't NPR.org. People swear here. Get over it. Oh, sorry, I meant, GET THE FUCK OVER IT.

By the way, DB is indeed not you. DB may not even be who I am married to. I may not even be married, or even female. Then again, I may be married to 'a' DB. You're not the only one. Get over yourself, too, ok?

I have every right in the world to clarify that a comment is not associated with me and I am not ashamed of it. Just like you are more than welcome to cuss up a storm. That is right--YOU--not me. YOU are the one who cussed on here. And people could easily interpret YOU to be connected to ME. Thus you can shove it if you don't like my clarification. PS...I will report you butt to the moderator if you try to start some kind of war back and forth with me because of my clarification.

How hilariously appropriate right now...

"Bastardly.com appreciates your comments, but please be aware that you might be verbally assaulted by increasingly bitter individuals who also peruse the site."

Having an underlying NEED to get your point across using the application of
curse words to enable yourself to feel secure that your point was well heard is not
necessary. It is necessary for "potty mouths" who acquired a bad habit with the English language. Fellow man I feel respect an articulate, non cursing individual much more than the cursing !

I have visited :

http://joranvandersloot.blogspot.com/

I did not read much on the above site, nor return. That is a prime EXAMPLE of
the compelling NEED to stress your point with less than pleasant words. Read and see what you think.

Inappropriate language steer many bright minds from many sites.

We have the freedom of speech. Mine is to be a stable, articulate American with clean language conveyed on public forums, and to remember to ALWAYS respect others ideas and morals in all aspects.

HAve a wonderful Sunday !!

Columbo ~ What is NEXT on Shango's agenda ? I miss hearing from you !!!

the Dicemen must be questioned-they were there that night-tell the cowboys (I'll bet they could break the alibi!):

http://www.dicemen.net/

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm

The DiceMen must be questioned.

They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze

Mary who was not a virgin entered

And so Columbo am I correct to assume that "cameras" for surveilance need to be studied ? If so, why have they stalled until now ??

see paragraph 2:
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pspoole/echelon.html

to the point where Dirtyhand was discovered, all that I had thought could possibly have been in FBI possession was a voice message from NH with background noise....could Dirtyhand have been on this tape? Notice whenever Shango says 'light the fires' he is directing where the authorities should turn up the heat on a suspect.....amazingly he says this in the line before 'the lamb is a goat' (the loss or transfer of Natalee occurs here!)- Aruban LE took evidence to Quantico at some point then there are mysterious sudden 'vacations' or 'retirements.' I'd be willing to bet that the FBI was given the police voicemail system outgoing messages.....remember-Dirtyhand was in custody, discovered by gods of the cowboys:

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 3:09 pm

Simian, (another poster speculating on the case)
who else plays in the orchestra? A Babylonian....

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 4:42 pm

Arawaks hold singing card from babylon (Dirtyhand)
There is also a trio. One Babylonian. 2 Shivas.
Arawaks canít let babylonian Card sing because hand holding it dirty too. (a hand that is also dirty????)
Many teepees fall. No Wampum.
Cowboys eat Sacrifice. Arawaks eat sacrifice.
Dirty hand stays hidden, but all are well-fed. (we're not supposed to know about this!)
Cowboys happy, but unrest in the halls of the palace

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm

DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders
He walks in all houses
And he walked with the fallen elder (was released at the same time as PVDS)
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation
Babylon owes the Arawaks!

what Shango has access to, if I am correct, is foreign intelligence....by U.S. federal law an intelligence agency is prohibited from sharing foreign intel with LE agencies (thanx Bill Clinton). Hence, tell the cowboys!!!

The 9 witnesses need to talk to the cowboys and be given immunity ! We NEED 2 know where Natalee is, and in some way stop the corruption by exposing them !

Stefani! That is brilliant!!!!! They get no immunity there, but they can here!!!!! Never thought of that.....nice work.....will be interesting to see how it all shakes out.....

I don't think the corruption will ever stop though....and I don't think that this has been asked.....as Shango said-what is being asked is a mere trifle. Witholding the trifle has gotten awfully expensive though....and that is before any boycott.....someone's got alot to hide here

Tues., November 1, 2005, Beth Twitty is returning to Aruba to check on the progress of her daughter's case. I hope to see a LOT of smoke blowing out of there, LOTS of fires lit, and a LOT of nervous LE, because Beth is onto these corrupt jerks. It is ONLY a matter of days I hope, but I do not want a scapegoat held, I want the real perp held accountable for their actions with Natalee Holloway !

Columbo I think u need to go to this link and offer your expertise. I also go there. Anyone check it out. Lots of good info on this forum. I hope to see you there ! Stefani :-)

http://websleuths.com/forums/index.php?

# 86 DB Go get 'em !
I am behind u 110 % !!!!
Identity clarification is important, especially if u
are among those mature individuals with MORALS, who do not feel a desire to express yourself using vulgar language.The lack of use of vulgar language is definetly a sign of respect for oneself and others as well. A wondeful courtesy and character trait. I support any guy who does not use it. I do NOT view it as "Kewl", hip, or not even macho. LOW CLASS all the way in my book ! I do not need to express my ideas via the F bomb, or the other nasty 4 letter words ! You and I, and others who also do not feel the NEED to use them are the true class on here. Nuff said ! Have a great Monday !!!

My Mother would have threatened to use soap............

And for my 2 cents worth, because it is now midnight in many parts of the world, "Happy Halloween !"
I have Reese Cups for the kids here.....

Stefani ~ If people who swear are potty mouths, uncool and low class, why are you so insistent on posting at BASTARDLY.com? Potty mouths rule here. The topic titles have swear words, the website title is a swear word. You're attacking the users of the website as well as the creator and his assistants.

Returning to Natalee Holloway as our topic...

I read that Beth was upset that Aruba wanted to question the friends from Natalee's high school but not the FBI. Shouldn't she be glad that they are at least taking one avenue? I think the friends should have been brought into play a long time ago. Assuming that we have been told the truth and that the kids haven't been questioned, someone could remember some tiny detail that lead to a new clue. I also think more people would stay interested in the case; it has turned some off that the friends seemed off limits. It would be really rare for a girl to disappear in the US and for the people who had been with her for the week to go unquestioned. During that one small interview that Greta conducted, it seemed really obvious that the kids were nervous to tell what they had been up to because of a fear that people would abandon Natalee. They seemed to be holding back, and that isn't condusive to finding Natalee. They need to be outlining where they went every day of the trip, where they met people, where anyone acted particularlry interested in ANY other them, where they drank, etc.

(I got the interview with Beth from http://blogsfornatalee.com/ )

Stefani~ They are so stupid they can't see the trees much less comprehend a paragraph. I hate that they are attacking you now!

92 Yup I got it about the forest and trees ! And...thank u for the defense ! I raised 4 boys and realize that life is TOO short to bicker, and it will NOT happen from this gal with anyone !!! But I do defend people ! I am my Brother's keeper...

OK back to the subject I am apalled about the bone found in Aruba a while back, JUST NOW being sent to the lab in Holland for verification of type ?

I feel MORE than EVER after reading this bone information
that unfortunately for Beth and Natalee's Father, that they definetly are dealing with the Keystone Cops over in Aruba.

http://getagripmonkey.blogspot.com/

What a total disgrace to an American family receiving VOID promises regarding such a sensitive situation and loss !

Remember when it was stated that "Something bad had happened."
So, why was there never anything done to persue that statement after it was made in the open statement ??

http://wizbangblog.com/archives/006162.php

I am glad you brought up the bone! I was wondering about that earlier but I figured that had turned out to be nothing or we would have heard about it. So you are saying it has never been tested? What about the statements back when they found it that we'd know something in 6 weeks?? Give me a break...

My first instinct is that they (the Aruban authorities) already know it is her.

Stef:

may need to Boycott the Dicemen....I see their first U.S.A. release was on 7/15-light the fires:

http://www.dicemen.net/

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm

The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered

Note: Joran would not enter the maze, and when NH does, she has a new name....Mary (Magdeline?)....did Joran get money to leave her there? He returned to "the fold" ....

DirtyHand is the the Keystone!
Van Der Straaten is the key!
The lamb is in their fold, and the shivas.
Joren and the Kalpoes are mere pawns
Threadsurfers, if they cannot out a lamb to manger, how will they deal with lions?

Hmmmmso do u think like I do that Natalee was sold or traded for sex slavery ? They took her to the Rave House, and gave her XTC ?But, perhaps she did get harmed, and died, fighting them off. Those Arubans make me sick. Keystone Cops all the way !!

Tonight on Fox/Greta Van Sustern Beth Twitty stated that the long awaited NEW search team had pulled out of Aruba, because Aruba failed to cooperate with the necessary equipment it needed for the search. Way to go Aruba ! Keystone Cop, DOMPIG does NOT want a solution to this case. It is quite obvious !

Will Aruba LE solve this case of the missing American girl, Natalee Holloway ? Does Aruba WANT a solution and to have their DEEP corruption exposed ?

ARUBA WILL SOLVE THIS CASE WHEN DONKEYS FLY...............

I really respect the people on this board. Normally it drifts away from the point, and people argue about the silliest things, but people have stuck to the point on this board. Well Done, everybody!!!

Oh, and Aruba really is a nice place, don't let this become a stain on it's history! :)

Aruba isn't corrupted... Things like this happen all over the world. It isn't fair for Americans to bully Aruba and make an example out of them. I knew a girl who went missing in America... Guess what? They never found her or who done it, and it all happened one night when she went to the club. Let that be a lesson to you, nowhere's perfect.

If anywheree is corrupted, it is the countries of the G8. Especially the Busch Administration, and Blair/Labour Goverment in the U.K. You just know Tony Blair and George Busch are smokin' each other!!! :D

I think the difference in this case is that we in fact DO know who is responsible for this crime, and if Beth Holloway Twitty had never gotten onto an airplane, nobody ever would have known what happened.....therein lies the difference in this case.....no disrespect to the good folks of Aruba.

Keemee~No the US is NOT perfect, no place on the map is, but in the US IF an Aruban or any other came up missing, the next of kin would be kept well informed, and not in the dark as Aruba has to Beth Twitty. Dutch law is all closed courts and "secret."

EVEN the MOST beautiful women are NOT perfect, beneath the surace there are hidden secrets and truths. The same goes for Aruba. NO matter HOW beautiful it is or how similar it may be to Paradise, they HAVE problems ! It is a small island compared to the US, so the problems are immense due to its size.

They are corrupt, and they DO in fact have serious crime there. The people are so afraid that they are in the stages I think of not seeing a thing, for FEAR of their lives and safety. Not a good way to live, but who cvares because it IS Paradise, huh ?

http://www.hyscience.com/archives/2005/09/harrytho_tuesda_1.php

http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_2726196.shtml

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051019

In ALL reality the LE in Aruba waited too long to begin a thorough investigation of her disappearance. Evidence was destroyed, hidden, and vanished.

These clowns on Aruba ARE in fact responsible, and their fellow citizens need to find a way to MAKE them fess up, or WHOEVER KNOWS and SAW, NEEDS 2 stop being afraid and fess up to the US with the truth. My ONLY desire as a Mother is that Beth Twitty get closure for this horrific crime against her baby.

To the perpetraitors I say: "Your sins will find you out...."

SO, IF u say to me that Aruba has NO corruption, I must wonder what u are smoking !
As for Pres. Bush he is NOT perfect, but a GOOD man with CHRISTIAN morals and I believe has a sincere interest in the US people. He has made tremendous strides with his appt. of Judge Roberts to the Justice of the US Supreme Court, and now Alito. We WILL see the USA morals return to WHERE they were once. I am proud to be an American, and would be so ashamed of my country if they pulled the chain of someone like Beth Twitty with LIES, LIES, and a Pinocchio? novel.

The Americans are united and will not give up on the disappearance of Natalee until we get a satisfactory resolution to this LONG overdue situation.

When Dompig 1st spoke, I thought HOW wonderful that Beth will finally get closure for her missing daughter, but...now ? He is NOT returning Beth's calls, and will not sign the necessary document for the additional equipment that Equisearch NEEDS to continue its search on the island for Natalle's body, so they have left.That tells me that he has NO intention of solving this and will NOT do so until, "Donkeys fly !"

I think the part about America bullying Aruba over this is a really incorrect statement, no offense to the author. I have read this too much in the case...that the US is a bully and is picking on Aruba. I don't think the US would be nearly as involved if the Arubans had acted like they took it seriously. When this thing first broke, the people of Aruba expressed support for Beth but the authorities held back. Thus the US knew that every day wasted depleted the chances of finding her. There was no choice but to step in.

I have been to Aruba and absolutely loved it. We felt very safe and were treated like royalty by the islanders, especially when they found out we were Americans. Just like here, there and everywhere, though, there are bad people doing corrupt things.

Oh! Stefani you'll appreciate this tidbit...off subjest but anyway...
last year we took our two year to the homecoming parade for our alma mater. It was near Halloween aand the election was less than a month away. A lady dressed as the Statue of Liberty was representing the Democrats and she was skipping down the road handing out and throwing candy to everyone. When she neared us, she spotted my child and came rushing over with her hand extended, full of candy. (We did nothing to call her over.) When she got about three feet away, the look on her face turned to pure horror as she saw the "W for President" onesie our child wore and the "W is my Homeboy" shirt that I was wearing. She blurted out, "OH!" and gasped, jerking her hand back away as our child reached out for it. She then turned and went along the parade throwing candy left and right. That justified my already-unwaivering-vote even more...she basically let her politics make her take candy from a baby. haha.

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll (was unconcious)
ask the men who play dice and 'roll' (*note the quotations)
*- http://www.dicemen.net/ album 'A Thing Called Rock 'n' Roll'

101: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Follow the music (The Dicemen)

102: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze (participated-were involved!**)
Mary who was not a virgin entered (Mary=Mary M. NH was brought here by someone who was paid)
**the Maze=premeditated drugging and raping of unsuspecting women-begins at C&C and winds its way toward the strip with the casinos and the small high-roller houses

103: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze (was driven somewhere else)
There is more than one house of music
the Lamb is a Scapegoat

104: Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold (behind racquet club)
Mary Rolled (just Mary now....was stolen, becomes loot, now "doesn't even know any of these people")
And the lions played

Dompig is trying to find a witness who can place the Kalpoe car outside PVDS' home.....if you thought he was sweating before.........

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 8:27 pm
DirtyHand and the fallen judge may not be crucified (for what?)
the gods are talking

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:49 pm
The maze offers many hidden desires
deflowerings of forbidden fruits
DirtyHand knows.
So does the elder. (He does??????)
The lamb is a scapegoat.

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort (police???) after the 2 shivas left
(hint: look for someone fitting the description of the two security guards given by JVDS)

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden (ILLEGAL) desires in the small houses of Babylon
the girl knew this
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire. (he worked there-he worked for the elders for years.....PVDS was the fallen elder)

The fallen elder gave the girl to the sex slave traffickers ?

check this out, the posting done on 6/04:

http://www.mythforlife.com/predictions.html

then consider that PVDS has an older model Toyota from which forensics were taken.....the location of his house fits the location from the crime scene described-not from C&C's, but from Mamba's......if it is presumed that NH got taken in another car with 3 other guys at Mamba's....after a confrontation?

The boat described could be the Caroline. Even weighting of the body is described. This is eery.....

Shazam! http://www.dicemen.net/

Authorities: New Developments In Natalee Holloway Case

POSTED: 8:52 pm CST November 4, 2005
UPDATED: 8:54 pm CST November 4, 2005

ORANJESTAD, Aruba -- Authorities in Aruba said they have both new witnesses and leads in the disappearance of Natalee Holloway.

The 18-year-old has not been seen since she left a bar on the island on May 30.

The prosecutor's office in Aruba said it is conducting new interviews of witnesses in the case, but is not being specific about the new developments.

Dutch national Joran Van Der Sloot and Surinamese brothers Deepak and Satish Kalpoe were all held in connection with Holloway's disappearance, but all three were eventually released.

Columbo! Eeeeeeery prediction on the mythfor life site ! YIKES !!!
That specific prediction ALL falls into place with SHango's Riddle.

I would bet $$ that Lorenzo Wever raped and murdered Natalee.
Lorenzo Wever is supposedly the 1/2 brother of URINE. He works at
the casino.....Hmmm ??

She is fish food I feel, and I ALSO feel that whoever made the cross and rosary memorial was someone trying to ease their guilty conscience. Awfully strange where it was placed as to location....Hmmmm

Ya know these people are too slick, and this investigation was BOTCHED from the get go, so I am beginning to agree with the prediction that soon all who concerned about Natalee's disappearance are going to have to let go of it , and let the girls soul rest.

IF she was in fact strangled to death, I think that her sould will wander Aruban shores for many years to come. What an awful possibility ~ a violent ~ tragic waste of human life. Visit Aruba ? NEVER !!!! Aruba can go straight to HELL ! Their people are already there !

Boycott Aruba ? YOU BET ? Will it harm the citizens on the island ? YES, and.. I could care less. Aruba has asked to starve with their devious act on our American girl. It could have been me or you ! It could be a similar act to ANY tourist from the US who visits there, so why go ?

Dicemen bio from record company page (note "souls"):

The Dicemen aim for total world domination. But if that's aiming too high this irresistible trio will be satisfied by making a lot of shows by spilling blood, sweat, and tears. Their own special blend of psychobilly is influenced by punk rock, rock & roll, rockabilly, hardcore, and death metal. The band is currently touring around Europe to infect poor innocent souls with their dirty power rock'n roll. As long as it stinks like sweat, tastes like beer and innocent girls fall to their knees when hearing the straight from the heart music, these Dicemen will conquer!

link: http://www.ludeboyrecords.com/bands.html
_________________________________________________
(see "souls" again)

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm

All know of the music
beckoning lost souls
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm

The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered

link: http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html
____________________________________________
MAY NEED TO BOYCOTT ALL OF LUDEBOY'S BANDS IN USA!!!!!!!

I have not seen the photos of the makeshift memorial, got a link anyone?

http://www.amw.com/features/feature_story_detail.cfm?id=827

Just located this site.. I must have been hibernating or someting. I usually follow the SCARED MONKEYS. A lot of good comments and investigating here.
AMW Sat. 11/05/05
Nothing new again!! Just like Capone's safe. A lot of talk for ratings. I'm really surprised at AMW and Mr. West. He has started to sound like Geraldo, talked for forty five minutes about new facts and reports from Aruba: that actually lasted for about 4 minutes and signified nothing. The Aruban police and investigators are not stupid nor are they incompetent. Corrupt is a better term. They are “dumb like fox�. Their current attitude towards this investigation show they know what happened, they know who did it, they are covering for them and as long as they kept looking like bumbling idiots, a la Peter Sellers, this case is never going to be allowed to be solved. I don’t know what kind of outside intervention will bring this case to a resolution other than a total boycott of all Dutch held territory. The Dutch have lied and are laughing in Dave and Beth faces regarding their daughter’s fate. It is most unfortunate that this had to happen to Natalee: but let it be a lesson to all who travel within and outside the USA… be alert, stay together and stay on guard.
And further more: I still cannot comprehend why any other part of the Island other then the pond, landfill and light house have never been searched. “No body no case�. The very fact that Paulus refused to have his house searched and the investigators did not follow through and insist, leads me to believe he knows and they know what happened to Natalee. My gut feeling still is: The father, the son, the brothers, two or more buddies, an after hours club, a small truck and an underground site near the Gold Mine Ruins near Montana. Comments to this gut feeling are appreciated… pro or con as long as it starts something that can bring Natalee home.

Sorry, everyone, I've been offline for a while! :) Stefani, you realy are the stupidest hoe I have ever spoken to... almost. No doubt if the muslims, or the jews were the biggest religion in America, Busch would have been praying to allah, and condeming Jesus Christ. Since the election, he has stopped going to church, savvy?It was a ruse to get votes!!

As for what I'm smokin'... What age are you, 12? Just because when you're finished your day at kindergarten you go home and smoke your daddy...

White girl missing
Sells more advertisement than a reformed crack whore
in Community College, bettering self

Note: Ludeboy records, the distributor for Dicemen in the USA, is headquartered in SoCal, the porn HQ of the world....and two of it's management have aliases on their website......I'm sure the FBI will be visiting. On Ludeboy's website under Dicemen's bio:

excerpt: "The band is currently touring around Europe to infect poor innocent souls*** with their dirty power rock’n roll."

strangely, Shango:

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls ***
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered

According to Shango, they were where NH was, and are witnesses that will testify that she was drugged and unconcious

It is with enormous sadness that THIS board gets new comments, and most are less than acceptable. Dispensation of lude, dismaying insinuations and slanderous comments attacking a person NOT EVEN considered an acquaintance of commenter. DB and Columbo's intelligent theories detain me here. So, I will say to THE nasty potty mouth, "Have a great day !" Some are less fortunate than others.

www.dicemen.net

according to Shango....find the music, or follow the music....may refer to a song

answers to what happened may be found in the words of a song*** by the Dicemen

whatever is meant by maze....may be in a song

Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 12:04 am

The gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir
the music which holds the answers lies within the maze
the cowboys will smile sweetly as the chorus sings
backs turned to the maze
never hearing a single note
from the poison song ***

"Shango Says" is a very interesting Riddle written using that username in June of 2005.Proof of a password to realizing if it is the true composer, "SHANGO" is Allyinmiami. There have been MANY Simian and Shango imposters on the net.
Varied skeptism as to "WHO" Shango really can be. Someone has taken on the username and posted this riddle to possibly tell about WHAT really happened to Natalee, perhaps they were there ? or perhaps they are clearing a conscience, and want to secretly EXPOSE the deep corruption existing on the island of Aruba. Hokey ? I do not think so, nor do MANY others. Interpret it, perhaps, but it would take a lot of work. Constantly rereading it and surfing to locate the meaning behind the hidden clues, fascinating. Do I believe the SHango author KNOWS what happened and WHAT goes on there on that island of Aruba ? Absolutely I do 110 % !!

Read and see. I firmly believe that the answers lie within SHango, don't u too, Columbo ? Give us more !!

http://www.scaredmonkeys.com/?p=1190#comment-25477

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1454903/posts?page=181,31

DB, Columbo, and all ! I missed reading your good thoughts while this forum was offline ! My electricity also went out for 6 hours the other day during a windstorm. I kept thinking is this all there is ? Darkness and silence ?? No PC or TV. What a spoiled American I have become in this great age of technilogy ! :-)

I am cracking up too much that you thought you were banned!! I haven't heard any good updates either but will ahve to investigate today.

Well Stef, let's analyze something I first read in one of your posts, and, let me ask you, where did Joran say he first dropped NH? HI parking lot? When she said she did not want him to leave her....it was not because she wanted to spend the night with him.

Acting through his underboss, Rocco Ernest Infelise, head of one of the largest "street crews" in Chicago, Ferriola directed Jahoda to lure 51-year-old Robert Heyden Plummer to the outfit's elegantly appointed "Murder Mansion" in northern Libertyville Township. The secluded Lake County mansion in the woods once belonged to a local millionaire, Bruce Rouse, and his wife, Darlene, until they were brutally murdered in 1980. Their case was never solved. The mob bought up acreage and spent $50,000 converting the former residence into a high stakes casino [***of gold bricks the path is not paved****] that employed eighteen full-time people to accommodate the gambling high rollers and fun- loving clientele who parked their cars in the rear [***Mary who was not a Virgin (Mary M.) entered to play with the lions but it was not a game***]. Reportedly, the outfit raked in $400,000 for just fifteen nights of casino gambling. According to Jahoda, political protection was supplied by former Lake County Sheriff Tom Brown [****Dirtyhand****], whose elected term spanned 1978 - 1982.

The Murder Mansion was an appropriate setting for what Rocky Infelise had in mind. He told the skittish Jahoda a few short hours before a well-planned murder to lead the unsuspecting Bobby Plummer up the flight of stairs to the second-floor casino and "just keep going." Plummer was a "revenue collector" for Ferriola, and a gambler of long standing in the northern suburbs. He also operated the Front Runner Messenger [***did he say messengers??????***] Service, a horse-betting parlor in Highwood belonging to Michael Posner [*****hmmmmmmm, sounds familiar*****], a protégé of Ferriola and a kingpin in Lake County mob vice operations. Plummer, of north suburban Lake Forest, was attacked on the stairway and savagely beaten to death. His body was found in the trunk of his wife's Lincoln Continental in a Mundelein Holiday Inn parking lot [*****did he say the HI parking lot??????****].

Chilling.......

BTW....notice how operations like these require full time staffing, yet are illegal? Could PVDS have worked there? This would explain the employee discount at the Excelsior for JVDS.

VERY chilling and Joe Mammana is VERY aware. The other night (Monday) on Fox he said that ONLY Michael Posner could help, and he should being that Mike and Joe are BOTH cut from the SAME cloth.BOTH are Sicilian and BOTH have done time.....ONLY difference is that Posner still is deep into the corruption and Joe uses his $$ for rewards, etc. for LOST women. 1 straightens out and 1 remains corrupt.

I wish we could go there and clean this up. hehe Aruba has deaf ears to the Shango Riddle and corruption insinuations about their "dirty" island.

I my opinion THIS will NEVER be solved with the true perp being held accountable. A sacrifice will soon I feel be "offered" to the cowboys, and that does not cut it with me.

Bushy Haired Stranger forum banned me ! Too many Arubans on there I guess. They also want to hear NOTHING about our Shango Theory. Small minded pin heads !

Well, I am sure that the Dicemen have alot to lose if USA boycotts them....if they are lumped together with an Aruban boycott they could be squeezed into coming forward.....I am certain that Shango refers to them....look at this excerpt from their bio page at their distributor's website "Ludeboy:"

excerpt: “The band is currently touring around Europe to infect poor innocent souls* with their dirty power rock’n roll.�

and Shango below!!!!!

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls*
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered

Notice also that Shango says there is more than one house of music....in one NH is Mary, In the other she becomes Mary who was not a Virgin (Mary Magdeleine-she was unconcious here-never heard buoy toll....what happens at a toll booth?)...sounds like she was taken by the lions into the rear much like in the Chicago house with the back entrance for 'fun loving' high rollers...while unconcious

Please make up your mind...

First, you said,
"Keemee

Hi… This is really sad. I hoipe she will return alive, but I know she won’t.

Stefani is right, this has been handled by both sides very badly."
Then you said,
"Keemee
Sorry Stefani, I did not mean to argue with you. It is not yur fault you are [INSERT INSULTS HERE]."

Anyhoo...
Guess what?
No one missed you if your most recent posts represent your behavior on here. You had made about two posts before and they were short yet fine and all. But I am sure everyone would just prefer the trash-talking-kind of posters back off the regulars who keep this thing going. If you were keeping up with the posts then you know her's have been consistent. I am just sick of this crap. You can attack people all you want but you need to realize that you are in the minority and look stupid. Just trying to help you out...

Yup DB u r right. What a sleuth u r !
Multiple names for a poster and the SAME various insults. Must be an islander who
failed English at school perhaps. Atrocious spelling. Don't they make those
pocket translators that are Dutch to English and vice versa ?
I sure hope Santa has one in his bag !

The ho slam was the funniest to me ! I take it all with a grain of salt.
Insults and rough talk are a whiz for me....I soaped 4 mouths repeatedly while the boys were growing up !

Could they have given Natalee to a tanker or shipped her out on a larger boat while still high on X ?Nobody probably KNEW WHAT 2 do with her after the rave.....Just wondering ?

The following is very good food for thought if you believe Natalee was gang rape, killed and buried on Aruba.
Probable place were Natalee died please visit and use arrows at top of page.
http://64.69.33.211/nh/siframes.html
For an in depth analysis as to Who What Where When Why and How: please read…
http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.htmlhttp://64.69.33.211/nh/siframe...
Indicators as to where Natalee might be now, please visit.
http://www.underworldtales.com/aruba2.htm
Closer indicator “Looking up to a circle in the sky�, “surrounded by trees�. Sky as viewed from bottom of an open mine shaft. Trees are the support timbers… Balashi open mine shafts 1.5 km from Montana, & 3.0km from Police Station in Noord. Near the Spanish Lagoon where the duct tape was found.
http://www.gudlyf.com/photos/aruba03/goldmine2.jpg Find this location and maybe we will find Natalee………….
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&rls=GWYA%2CGWYA%3A200...
home.ptd.net/ ~teamstr/air.html
Who knows were Natalee is now.. Opinion being Paulus Vander Sloot and Van Straaten

10061909:

interesting theory.....is that what you believe?

10061909~Scubajap reported in a couple of the forums that the first link which shows buildings was NOT what we think. The restaurant there, interesting enough is owned by the stepfather of the K x's.These are located very close to the Sloot's property.These were discussed heavily at the Natalee forum that has shut down for approx. 3 weeks ? now. I do not know. I feel that she was taken to a private party at the home of the 1/2 bro, of Lorenzo Wever. He is under 30 as the psychic said. Under the influence of X would certainly do her in, especially if she was given too large of a dose !

I swing back and forth personally about this, alive and held as a sex slave vs murdered ?
Was she placed in the large wire fish cage and fed to the sharks, taken out far enough from shore and weighted down ?
BY THE WAY IF SHE WAS, OR WAS NOT WHY DIDN'T THE ARUBAN LE TAKE FINGERPRINTS FROM THE FISHERMAN'S HUTS THAT BROKEN INTO THAT FATEFUL NIGHT SHE DISAPPEARED ?)

IF u break in some place in the USA, they will dust for prints like maniacs ! Common sense to do this I would assume !

IF not placed in the wire cage and fed to the sharks, then was she incinerated ? Rem. that guy was found decapitated. Did they set someone else for his murder ? Did he KNOW TOO much ?

The USA has their specific problems, but all in all, I feel minimal considering the estimated population in the US.

Yesterday ? the atty. for the Twitty's/Holloway, Helen has rec. phone threats and also had her tires slashed ? Will these Arubans NEXT leave a horsehead in her car ? They r trying to frighten her. (By the way they could easily leave a horse's head, 'cuz there are so MANY horse's a$$'s there on the island !)

ANyway welcome ! Glad to have new blood here at the site. I enjoy this forum MORE than any, because it is not as large as the others, and unlikeThe Bushy Haired Stranger, (who is R E A L L Y strange) they won't ban u for having ideas, and an opinion ! I love you all !!!

Stef:

The change in Mary to Mary who was not a Virgin is used to place her....when she becomes Mary who was not a Virgin I believe that he is placing her in a different location-she was moved either forcibly or in an unconcious state by the lions (....to play with the lions, but it was not a game). Also, in this location were the Dicemen, who are either witnesses or were complacent.

He said that there "is more than one house of Music" and she "rolled THROUGH the maze"

Who took her?
Dirtyhand knows
so does the elder

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:29 pm
Babylonians and Shivas do not play with sandcastles
Follow the music! (Croes)
Mary who was not a Virgin entered the maze to discover itís secrets
The lamb is scared
The fires are lit

I don't understand why people keep calling Aruba a paradise.Unfortunately there is no such place anywhere in the world,with the exeption of the US ofcourse.In Aruba you have prostitution,drugs and drug addicts,robberies and murders,like in any other part of the world,again with the exeption of the crime free,picture perfect United states.That's why I'm soo proud of being an american,since in my country here we DO NOT know the meaning of crimes,rapes,abductions etc.I can walk alone at night WITHOUT ever being
raped,kidnapped or mugged!!This country is SOOO perfect that we are constantly being blessed by nature(huricanes,tornadoes) and by people who adore us so much (terrorist attacks).Yes,we are indeed blessed,simply because we ARE CRIME FREE.And because of this WE have the right to pass judgements on the other countries,and this is why WE ARE SOOO MUCH LOVED ALL OVER THE WORLD,ESPECIALLY IN THOSE ARAB NATIONS.
Yes,I'm SOOO proud to be called American and when I'm on vacation in some Latin American country,where the US is also sooo much liked,I say it out loud,I AM AN AMERICAN.Because I'm coming from the crime free,perfect United States Of America.
Yes god bless America because we are the best people in this world and that's why we are SOOO much loved everywhere we go.NO crime, NO murders,NO unsolved murdercases,NO missing people,NO rapes,NO corruption in the judicial system,NO CIA leak,NO secret prisons,NO bribes,NO nothing.So noone can ever pin anything bad on us.
So it is cool for us to look into other countries backyards,since our own is squeaky clean.

Just off the record,can someone please tell me what have become of those 11 convicted killers in Florida that were granted freedom because law-enforcement officers there forgot to read them their Miranda Rights????

Oneisha~I am so glad that u were able to get all of that heavy weight off your chest. We cannot compare crime stats of the US to those of Aruba. There is NO population comparison in the matter.

Yup we have problems here, as anywhere does, BUT nonetheless you MUST admit that we ARE a civilized country, and do take the time to deal with situations of crime, etc. on an etical, fair level in our judicial system.

Yes my USA is beautiful. I am a 1st generation American and could have been born in a country which was communist, if my parents did not immigrate here.

No other place is an individual afforded the opportunity be ANYTHING they choose, whether it be blue or white collar in society. Education is NOT just for the wealthy here.

Because we are so free, Beth Twitty has utilized that freedom to express herself about her missing daughter in our country and Aruba.

We are NOT perfect but learn as we go. LQQK at FEMA ~ major overhaul after Katrina hit, and now we have learned from our lessons.

What has Natalee taught us about visiting a corrupt, island full of coverup and corruption, and finger pointing to the other individual ? It has taught me to never visit such a place. There are places JUST as nice in the US and other countries. Aruba deserves a BOYCOTT so that they have no income to pay their needs and to make them sit and take notice that we as a UNITED USA are not going to tolerate this dispicable act against 1 of our citizens. It is prevention IF there is another American that goes missing. They will KNOW not to touch, because we will not sit and stand for their corruption and evil ways !

FEMA had no such difficulties in Texas and Alabama......New Orleans was corrupt like Aruba, and there is a federal probe into the levee failure

just before Katrina there were two state homeland security officials replaced in Louisiana....because of indictments on federal corruption charges.....diversion of federal homeland security money

The poverty there has flourished because corrupt officials chased the companies that held the promise of prosperity out of the state-into Texas....where many of the citizens fled after Katrina

BTW-the democratic party has had a strangle hold on power in Louisiana for over 60 years and it can now be said that this particular democratic utopian model has been an abject failure

I repsect others' opinions, but I must say that I hope others in other countries don't read that sarcastic post and interpret it literally to be our opinions. We will once again be bombarded by the insinuation that Americans don't care about finding Natalee but instead care about bashing other countries to lift ourselves up. You are often dealing with people that do not speak fluent english adn they won't realize that the post was (I HOPE) sarcastic.

The big picture that nobody wants to acknowledge is that I would be fighting like hell for justice no matter where I was geopgraphically if my child disappearred. Beth Twitty would be causing a scene in any place, even her own hometown of Birmingham, if Natalee disappearred and things were being covered up or at least ignored.

There is an "unsloved" crime here in my small town...an ex-boyfriend strangled and raped a girl (who had documented his abuse on her) the week he graduated high school in 1983. He left her body in a field next to the high school and bragged about it to his friends on senior trip. He has never been brought to trial. He was charged with the crime in 2003 after DNA evidence became sophisticated enough to link him, though he has found a way to get the trial stalled for one reason or another. He remains charged, pending trial. TWO years later... No one is claiming it doesn't happen here, but I am not going to let someone kill my child and get away with it just because that does sometimes happen in my country and thus I would be a hypocrite for expecting justice.

About Louisiana, I was bron there and have all of my family roots there. It is a great place but politics are shady a LOT of the time. Just look at how many former politicians end up in white collar prisons!! HAHA

PVDS walked....new scapegoat being prepped......probably drove the boat

PVDS walked so who is next ?
Light the fires !!

PVDS was freed by the 'impartial judges' from Curacao. Aruba's gonna serve up a venerable nobody and turn it around on the family: "we solved the case-what else do you want us to do?"

looks like it will be this Coonsie person-daddy has a boat....real shame so many will skate.....the polis are auditioning him now

Oneisha nad Henshai are right aswell. I am annoyed that you say things like "I know where you're coming from..." or "I respect your opinion..." and then go on to try and prove them wrong. I do ,owever, admire Columbo, the rest of us have all been fighting andhe hasn't said a hurtful word about any of us.

By the way Stefani, your grammr is slipping agan! :)

ANYWAY, I saw a clip from Greta last night where Beth said that the DA sent her a letter saying that she could not fit it into her agenda to meet with her. Was that old? I don't think so but I saw it online.

By the way, if it will make certain people happy, the next time I read one of their posts, I will do so without respecting their opinion, I promise.

In the future I also will NOT respect the opinion of certain posts. This will ensure the highly sought after happiness and desire to be the center of the universe of ALL potential trolls ! Hail and Praise be to the trolls and of course ALL sarcasism in ANY postings. The sarcasism has high tendency to cure the ails of the entire world. hehe

During this trying ordeal to discern the disappearance of Natalee it would not be the same without sarcasism and USA bashing. Perhaps living in Cuba for 6 months would be a sufficient cure to ALL of the USA bashers to enlighten them to appreciate WHAT we have here as FREE Americans !

http://www.espindle.com/index.php?_p=improve_grades&OVRAW=free%2Benglish...

grammr (grammar)

Great site to help SOME spell correctly in English to tell what happened to Natalee. Highly recommend this site !

Incidently, IF u think I have "argued" with posters u r mistaken. This little 'ol Polish gal could kick some butt if she needed to, but I choose to be a lady ! When neded though, I do have a great can of whoop butt to use !

Good work, Stefani. Now all have to is your attitude! By the way, why were you claiming to be American if you are Polish? I think you have an identity crisis...

By the way, who could bann me? People think I am funny and therefor keep me on. I bet that people reading my posts laugh.

What is so funny is that someone who needs a dictionary tries to shoot down others by using words in a completely incorrect capacity. That is what humors me. And, I agree, that person sure sounds a lot like Tante Bet. As far as saying I am great at insults, you seriously need to read EVERY post if you want insults, because my comments that weren't that flattering were in response to repeated, insistnet ignorance from persons such as that. If they don't eventually want to be told where to go then they can learn to zip it own their own. You just constantly call people dishonest, etc., because you don't understand American english grammar enough nor the dictionary to know you are using a word completely wrong.

If you don't understand enough about society to realize that someone can be an American and of another decent then I am sorry. I am going to take up for someone that you attack and you can get over it. You come on here and you bombard someone with insults for having an opinion that isn't yours and then you contradict yourself over and over. One minute, you agree with this peron, the next she's a (whatever). Take your broken english elsewhere if you want to bully people that will take it with a smile.

YOU NEED TO BE TOLD and I am not scared to do it: YOU are the one fighting with people and taking everything off subject. We will ignore you and ignore you but at some point you are going to be put in your place when you get too out of hand. Our comments have never been insulting or attacking. They have been defensive. And when someone is so low class that they have to use attacks like calling someone an incestuous whore to communicate, well, then that person usually only understands firm commentary. Call it insults if you want but you seriously need help if you think you can call people stuff like that and it not be an insult, but God forbid they respond. OH, then they are insulting you. Poor, poor little innocent you.

Oh, and STOP telling people they have bad grammar. Every one of your posts if FILLED with misspellings and bad grammar. You use broken english and bad spelling, so buzz off. So sorry if that was insulting!

DB~ Make sure I get your REAL name, BECAUSE our country needs your assertiveness. You are going to be my write in for the next election ! With suttle talk like that, but to the point you could be the next USA Pres., and I will be your foreign policy aid, and we will hand out free translators in palm form to anyone who can't spell or read english properly. I am done ! hehe

I am done with it, too. I am tired of thinking someone needs to tell that person this or that...Thus I just said it and now they can make a fool out of themselves all they want.

Anyhoo...that was interesting!! Why would one official be mad at another for meeting with Natalee's family. That is not conducive to finding her at all. Or did I misinterpret it?

Dr. Phil is doing a sequel to the show he aired in September about Natalee's disappearance and the Skeeter's tape, which Holland has NOT yet authenticated to date !

The program airing on Thursday, November 17 will also include information about the never found girl, Amy Bradley. Her family's cruise ship docked near Aruba, she went to listen to music with a DJ and she vanished about 7 years ago ! NO trace, so Natalee is NOT the 1st.

Information about the Human Trafficking scandals will be discussed, and the possibility of this having happened to Natalee as a theory.

Interesting newer info to watch and form your own opinion from.

Dr. Phil is on NBC ~ so check your local listings for Thursday !

http://www.visitaruba.com/facts/newsdesk/missing.html

READ here ! Scary info about the "Happy Island !"

NO doubt in my mind that a Boycott is in our best interest.

I hope you are all enjoying your little game of cluedo. You seem to have drifted away from the point... This isn't about blaming rockstars or listening to creepy internet poems.

Stefani, are you typing or just havin' sex on your keyboard?

DB, I just finished reading your most recent replies. When I mean I just finished, I mean it literally. Why do you feel the need to write a 10,000 word debate on everything. Get a vibrator, you seem like a very bored, and simultaneously boring, girl. Remember I said I want YOU to get a VIBRATOR. I don't want one of your essays on it, okay?

I just thought of something, I'm to get you boring old Milfes out of your trailer parks and get you dates. As well as being your tutor and councillor, I am also going to be your match maker. What state.district are yous from, I've been part of the exchange program since fifth grade, and have freinds in quite a few places. I might even know people interested in boring, pocket translater geeks like yourselves. :)

If you ask me Beth and Dave should give up and stop wasting money and manpower on this. They should accept that she is gone and begin the healing process. Even If the Perpatraitors are not caught by man, they will be by St. Peter.

The Heavenly Gates will open
And Those who deserve to will fall
In Death Justice will come
Runion for the parted and their love's call
And the fires for some

Obviously u have to be a PARENT to fully feel the entire ramifications upon the loss of a child.The love of a child is unconditional in nature, no comparison to HOW u feelBOUT ANYTHING OR ANYONE IN YOUR LIFETIME ! The child is loved in life, death, and way beyond adulthood. That kind of love is a forever type and really not explainable, you as a parent have to FEEL it, to know it, and to comprehend it !

As much as DAve and Beth LOVE their daughter, I do not see them giving up on locating her. How could they IF they have this bond which speaks for itself when they are in the public eye anbd speak. To love a child, is to NEVER give up ! That is very unnatural to do !

Sorry I havne't posted Steph...I have been busy with my "proio" engagements. These engagements included pouring over all of my books on the English langauage. For the life of me, I can't find one book that explains what a "coma" is in relation to grammar! All those classes in college and I never heard them mention a "coma" one time. Well, I mean, outside of science and psychology classes. It amazes me when someone whines about your (accurate) spelling and grammar via bad grammar and spelling.

I agree 100% about her family! I was actually thinking that exact thing last night...how I was winding down from my Thanksgiving family get together yet they had to eat without her. I seriously doubt that NH's mom actually had an appetite. Acknowledging Thanksgiving has to have been a really big moment of revelation for Beth and the rest of the family. Her family deserves to have the "perpatraitors" caught.

Also, don't you think it is completey strange how Keemee switches positions constanty? I mean just a few weeks ago, she was applauding Columbo and asking where the poems, etc., came from. Now she is discrediting them and telling us to get a life. Hmmmmmm.

*In all fairness, I give credit where it is due. All mispelled words in quotes were taken directly from Keemee's post via cutting and pasting.

I didnt really "read" what everybody on here wrote, so before I say this, I apologize in advance to anyone who has already mentioned what I am about to say. Ok, well if anyone watched the news about a week ago (I think), Natalee's mother said she had gotten a phone call which lasted 2 seconds and she was able to recognize her daughter's voice. But it was hard to understand what she was saying/trying to say because supposidly, she was drugged up. But the mother said she was sure it was her daughter calling her. I also heard that people spotted Natalee in a couple locations (Aruba, Cancun....) being drugged up and sold for sex. It's hard to get to her though because she is constantly being moved to different locations. And she can't fight for herself because she is way too drugged up. Well I hope they find her soon, alive and I hope those dirty, disguisting assholes who are doing all of this to her die!!!! If this is pissing me off, I could just imagine how her family feels

Here is the link with the scoop on the phone call.
Sorry I cannot type, as it is ALL the fault of DB. I am still
"cracking up" from her last post. I do not want to forget "coma" either.
Is a "coma" punctuation or is it a medical ter, This is getting to be very perplexing ~
don't now if I can deal with it all ! hehe

http://www.postchronicle.com/news/breakingnews/article_2121492.shtml

Well from what her mother said, she recieved the phone call about a week ago and it lasted for 2 seconds. My guess is that even though drugged up, Natalee somehow managed to escape for a couple seconds, called her mother and TRIED to speak for that short time, then her kidnappers found her and made her hang up.

Thanks for the link! That is really strange. I am sure that entities larger than a Birmingham TV station have analyzed the tape. I wonder what their interpretation is. I know that a lot of people will say that she heard Natalee's voice because she wanted to. What is interesting, though, is that I had assumed that the call was going to be one that she made when she was able to sneak a call. The article sounds like they (her captors) intentionally had her call.

Amy Bradley disappeared in 1998. She has been sighted in a Venezualean brothel, by a US serviceman, who would have gotten court marsahalled if they KNEW where he had been, so he just NOW told the media.

Unfortunately the US cannot just charge in and take our citizen. These are VERY rough, ugly characters involved in the human trafficking/sex slave trading.

The 2 Pukes and Joran, and Pappa SLoot could have easily taken her in a boat and handed her over when they were done with her, for $$ and a simple solution to avoid Nat telling WHAT they DID to her that night.

I would like to see her alive, but she will be hard drug dependant I am sure and so emotionally distraught. Would a person in that position ever rever emotionally from the abuse and trauma ? My thoughts are that it would be very remote that she could and would.

This is such an awful mess for her family.

Then I thought, well if they murdered her, are we all being fair ? I sometime believe that
all of us may be disturbing her soul in eternity. PLEASE do not feel I am nuts ! I just sometimes wonder if a person dies a traumatic death and suffers enormous pain, like a murder or tortured victim, well sometimes do these souls have some unfinished business here on earth with their loved ones ? Many times I have wondered if the loved ones grieve for their lost victim, is the soul in jeopardy to rest and perhaps feel drawn to the earth, but is unable to return ?

I am uncertain about whether or not the grieving can disturb the souls, but certain that there is life after death. God promised that to all believers who are baptized.

Perhaps I put too much weight in the new TV show that I watch on Friday PM, called, "The Ghost Whisperer." Perhaps my childhood involved too many adults who were able to foresee the future and speak to the dead.?? I keep all that stuff on a shelf.

Stefani, I know what its like to lose a child. Can you say "Miscarriage"? I have lost a child and I know that it is a terrible loss, but the fact is I didn't drag the rest of the world with me. Ididn't spend 6 months looking for a way to save my sons life. They should let her go.

One final thought:
Her post was starting off on target. How disappointing that she could not resist badgering me.

Keemee shows up and starts attacking Steph, but all of a sudden I am picking a fight for backing up Steph. HMMM. Keemee also said she went back and read old posts and knew so much more about me now, yet contradicts herself by apologizing for calling me a girl. Hmmm. She must have skipped the posts when I talked about my husband and called myself a lady?

Neither Steph nor I have ever cussed anyone, and the only negative comments from me were after I was attack. I am going to defend myself or anyone else who is being viciously attacked. Get over it. You are not stable. Where a verbal bully in school? You come on here and call people cunts, whores, bitches, whatever and you think SOMEONE ELSE is picking fights when they finally tell you to shut your trap???

From now on, I am just going to be conversing with Steph or other people that respectfully debate the correct subject: NH.

I'm sorry DB. The temptation was too great. I'm sorry, but its just you said "I don't want people confusing me with this person. To start with, she is a lady." Not only did you do your this person stuff, but you also said you did not want to be confused with a girl. I am not trying to piss you off, you deserve it, but I'm not. I just wanted to tell you why I thought you were a man.

Keemee~WHO THE H*&* !!!!!!!!! CARES !
Get out of the past, and live in the present, and.......
did u forget to take your lithium today ? I think so....

I said I was done, and I am. However, read posts 66 and 68 genius, and then stop putting words in other peoples' mouths. You can not retain info well apparently. You must read old posts and then before you can type your response your psycho little brain rewrites it entirely. You are not funny, as you previously announced, and YOU are ruining the commentary board here. Picking a fight with someone is starting a confrontation, like you do. Setting the record straight, as I did, is NOT starting a fight.

The key point iin post 66 is: "the DB that has previously posted on here is a lady, and I don’t have a wife."
I was talking about myself, genius, in perfectly acceptable english.

I read something intriguing about the disappearance but it was in a tabloid so I don't know its veracity. It said Beth, the mom, got a cell phone msg, saying "Mom ...help me" and there were foreign voices in the background & she was cut off. It said Beth was a 22 year practicing child speech pathologist & she thought it might be/was N, she was trying very hard to be professional and jaded. To the tabloid's credit, it wasn't on the cover, or near the front page, trying to start something sensational. The mom immediately gave the evidence to authorities here. I just hope sick people haven't found her cell number & are playing a game because the woman's been through enough.

Is anybody out there ? Is anybody still awake ? Just me ??

I do not know IF that was Natalee's voice or not, maybe, because WHO else BUT friends and Natalee would have Beth's cell # ? Pretty earth shaking I venture to say ! IF she is alive, and IF she was sold off to sex slaves, I cannot even comprehend the hours of therapy and meds she would need to rehabilitate to resort to the young lady she was prior. I have tossed the murder theory around and also the idea that MAYBE Urine, and the Pukes sold her off. IF they did in fact sexually assalt her, they certainly would not want to be held accountable for their actions, so a speed boat to a life of HELL could very well be what happened to her. IF that is the case there is no doubt in my mind that Urine, the Pukes, and Pappa Sloot are all involved in the tirade ! Reading about the control of the Mansur family on the island with boats, etc., wouldn't it be funny if Jossy were a part of this also. Possibly due to the fact that he was such a "kiss up" to Beth Twitty in the beginning, offering "false" leads (the gardner), and writing the atrocious articles for the Diario, in which he openly shows that he is playing both sides against the middle.

I feel that if Natalee is not found, or that if this is not "solved" (don't hold your breath !)~~ that it would be in Beth's BEST interest emotionally and physically to give this a "rest" and in some way direct Natalee's voice LOUDLY ~ spoken through Beth to a positive cause to prevent future heartbreaks, such as this and AMy Bradley !

Walsh took all of his negative energy and LQQK what he did because of his loss of Adam, he produced a wonderful program to HELP others, AMW. I realize as a Mother that it is difficult to admit there is NO possibility of a solution after nearly 6 mos., but Beth will not endure the stress of the current state of affairs indefinetly. It is physically impossible, and my heart and soul ache for her and the loss she has experienced.

I think there is a better chance in this lead being real than some of the others that lead them on a wild goose chase...

I have a minor in speech and theater. That is only about 24 hours, much less than someone majoring in the field would have to take. I am always aware of tiny fluctuations in voices. I pick up on changes in people's diction, pitch, speed, etc. immediately. I if I am so aware of this, then I am sure that someone with way more training and actual experience in the field would be ridiculously talented in deciphering these differences and identifying markers, if you may. It would be hard to keep emotions out of the way, but think about how quickly you can recognize the voice of your child, sibling, parent, spouse; you have conversed with those voices millions of times.

On another note, you see articles where people say that they suffered something like that 20 or 30 years ago and have been in and out of hospitals and tried suicide multiple times and so on. It is a double edged sword...how can you say you hope they are gone, yet how can you hope they are being kept as a sex slave?!

Do you know whats really funny? You all take heart attacks every time I have a good point. Earlier on in the board you were all shouting at me for saying things like "Have you forgotten to take your medication today?" and now you're all saying it. You guys are really pathetic. You obviously take my comments to heart, and then follow my advice and copy me. As your Councillor I am very proud. I'm making a difference in a couple of make-beleive-detectives lives. :P

By the way, If I am ruining this board feel free to block me. Unlike you sad old milfes I have fun in the real world too. Anyway, back to what this board is about.

I do not think that she was sold as a sex slave. I am inclined to beleive that she did indeed die. If you ask me, Beth is starting to get a little desperate, and maybe thought it was Natalee. I would like to beleive she is alive, but why would she phone her for a total of under five seconds, and after six months?

I just thought of something!!! Is it possible that the hair that they found, as well as the phone call is linked? It is starting to look to me as if she was forcibly kidnapped.

Allow me to explain. Say the Sloots 'n Co sold her to person X. They tried to tape her mouth shut but she struggled and they accidentily got some hair stuck in the tape. Once she was out of Aruba they threw the tape out to sea. The Sloots tried to protect person X, for whatever reason, and made uo the story about the lighthouse.

Maybe person X is a terrorist of some kind, and they told the lie to protect their families?

http://aruba.com/msgbrd/read.php?f=7&i=13353&t=13353

http://www.aruba.com/msgbrd/read.php?f=7&i=11497&t=11497

Hmmm. I hope that what happened to Natalee does not also happen at this new club.

By the way, If I am ruining this board feel free to block me. Unlike you sad old milfes I have fun in the real world too. Anyway, back to what this board is about.

I have scoured my dictionaries, and also my thesaurus for a definition of the above word, "milfes??"

Anyone have an inkling what is might be ? I am totally clueless.

In the movie American Pie, they used the term MILF for “Mom I’d Like to F…�

DB thanks for the clarification ! I would not have been able (hehe) to sleep tonight, not knowing what we are referred to. My youngest son is 24.5, so I am out of the loop for a while, and that is ok by me !

Tomorrow should be quite interesting, being the 6 month anniversary of Natalee's disappearance on Aruba.

After all of the discord over the SKeeter's tape, which was edited for TV, (normally) ~ the original DVD does not seem to be getting much precedence. It was truthful, original and uncut. SO what is wrong with that 1 ? NO priority should be given to a tv show tape, as they are manipulated and edited for the show.I feel that ONLY the original tape or DVD should receive consideration and authentication. Dutch law does things quite strangely, u gotta admit !

I am not in Ohio but I am in Tennessee...not too far!
I am sure we will be enlightened to a different definition of "Milfes" later...
AND let me say I sure as heck am not taking her comments to heart. I just believe in standing up for yourself against obnoxious behavior. I was also wondering what those good points were? She rarely comments on the case. It amazes, me too, that the spelling is still sooooo bad after all of the times she has said we have bad grammar in one of her posts filled with bad grammar and spelling errors. You would think that my responses to her attacks on our grammar (in which I pointed out that is was she who could not spell) would have helped a little. And about the putting words into people's mouths...where in the world does she think that we told her she needs to be "taking her meds". She forgets that our posts are right up there for anyone to read...

Post 124 she said, "Stefani, you realy are the stupidest hoe I have ever spoken to… almost" and then in post 125, she said "You are a chauvinistic American Whore". And she wonders why she wasn't met with joy.

Seriously, I will check in tomorrow! Good night!

All of Shangoís information comes from the higher power, Olorum
[ *OLORUM http://fly.hiwaay.net/~pspoole/echelon.html ]
Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity [keenness of hearing, sight, & INTELLECT].
Shango does not dance with the lions and looks from afar, viewing *remotely with the third eye of god.*

And who has the Elder SlanderFoot contacted in Babylon?
OMERTA [ http://www.bartleby.com/61/15/O0071550.html ]

Shango has spoken and looks from Oyo with third eye of god.For those who think Shango has danced with the lions
or walked the maze
they have not read diligently
Eyes of God see from afar
~If ye have truth, ask not how it was begotten~

What happened to we're not fighting any more?

I am not so sure about Shango. Maybe he is the person X in one of my more recent posts? It would be interesting if he was.

It does seem to be a solution to Natalees Disapearence.

What are you talking about?

Koen....the lion that doesn't leave the den (lives at home)

Koen probably took his Dad's boat out to dump the body for Joran and the Puke's, and.......he has NOT YET been questioned. The psychic tonight said that she feels that Natalee is passed, and that those 3 and the Dad did her in !

http://www.mythforlife.com/predictions.html

Koen in the 6/04 reading

I don't know if it is specifically Koen in the 6/04 reading. It could have been Croes, or Pappa Sloot. I do think that Koen helped to dump the body out to sea though.I also feel from this reading that Natalee was at a Rave and got XTC as Shango said. I think that Shango is in fact perhaps Deepak or Joran, himself. Joran's English and wit to write are the best of the group.

why has no one taken it upon themselves to offer little bitch-ass van der sloot a taste of his own medicine? he (& those other guys) are just beggingto be butt-fucked by a massive 12-inch cock. seriously. sick fucks. there are plenty of chances to have sex with a drunk girl, and you don't have to kill her. damn. they must be running one of those rape porn websites.
ooh, that's my theory. they taped it, and things got really brutal, out of hand. and they should have the opportunity to be tied up and bludgeoned ALMOST to death with huge steel dildos, being called cock-hungry sluts while it happens.

Some of you people are absolutely fucking retarded. Do you not realize the longer we, the U.S., keep pressure on Aruba about this the safer it will be for all of us who travel. We should send the fucking marines down there, go get those three fucks and execute them with no trial. If we did that more often no one would want to fuck with young American girls who are on vacation. Personally, I believe Natalee was probably fucking all three of them, maybe she was into asphyxiation and it went a little too far. Whatever. We should use this to send a message to people fucking with Americans on vacation.

Stefani

"I don’t know if it is specifically Koen in the 6/04 reading. It could have been Croes, or Pappa Sloot. I do think that Koen helped to dump the body out to sea though."

I think Koen is the local who was called according to the 6/04 reading here:
http://www.mythforlife.com/predictions.html

but whoever called him was someone he worked for....evidentiary review says that the 'elders' ran the VIP....and Shango says that Dirtyhand had worked for the elders for years....and PVDS was an elder (a fallen one) who needed to make ATM withdrawals that night-why?

anyone see the guards at the huge brothel in Curacao? wonder if they supply the VIP.....their uniforms fit the description given by Joran of the guards he supposedly watched help Natalee

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

but she probably fought, and there are witnesses:

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned. (customers)
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered (Mary Magdeleine-lured to a brothel!)
www.dicemen.net

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money? (NH had other ideas)

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:31 pm
Mary never heard the buoy toll refused to go-confrontation brutal
ask the men who play dice and 'roll' www.dicemen.net

Very Good..found at SM this am !
According to Travel Weekly, the brave new tourism initiative that is coming out of Aruba is a package to help those afflicted with SAD. Unfortunately, this is not a program that is designed for Monkeys who have watched and wondered about the island nation and their Dutch counterparts handling of the Natalee Holloway disappearance. Instead it is designed as a marketing effort to try to those who are suffering from Seasonal Affective Disorder (SAD).

So as we were in our editorial meeting today, we decided to help out the Aruban Government and reach out a little. We felt that if they were in need of new ideas, we were the ones to help. So here are Scared Monkeys recommendations to the Aruban Tourism board to help market the island.

MAD Package – Missing Affective Disorder – A hotel package that is designed to work with families of missing persons with special time set aside with Aruban government officials. This will make them much more appreciative of the work their local law enforcement is doing.

BAD Package – Beth Affective Disorder – This package is for Aruban and Dutch officials who are exhausted with managing Beth Twitty. They will be given lessons in how not to return calls, give misleading advice, provide vague and diffuse reassurances that all is being done.

CAD Package – Criminal Affective Disorder – This package will be held in Holland on a University campus. It will provide a safe haven for those that do bad things to tourist during their stay on Holland, but have influencial parents that can manipulate the system for their own reward.

TAD Package – Texas (Equusearch) Affective Disorder – This interesting package will take a persons good intentions and provide so much interference and subterfuge that they will lose all patience. Trips to the Aruban Government offices will work on developing patience while watching Aruban officials do all in their power to not fulfill their requests. This course will be offered very rarely, as these same officials will be taking advantage of the BAD package noted above.

If you have any other recommendations for the Aruba Tourism Bureau , leave a comment, or send it to the tourism board. They would appreciate the help filling hotel rooms this winter.

**************** SATIRE WARNING ****************

I think I might enrol in one of classes. :P

Alison DuBois....inspiration of the show MEDIUM on Rita Cosby:

.....PVDS knew how to get rid of the body with minimal evidence and is guilty

the way to implicate the boys is through the other victims because what happened was something they do routinely to unsuspecting tourists

Ha! Stefani and DB left when I stopped arguing. Trying to beat me was the only thing keeping them here. Ha!

Honey, it is called not having any commentary anything relevant to Natalee Holloway. NOT be scared off by you... GROW UP!!!!!!!!! For a minute there, I thought maybe you had.

Pardon me...I sent my post prematurely...

Honey, it is called not having any commentary relevant to Natalee Holloway. NOT being scared off by you… GROW UP!!!!!!!!! For a minute there, I thought maybe you had.

Dave Holloway said on Greta that he does not think that it was Natalie on the voicemail. Beth contacted him when she got it and asked him to listen to it because she believed it was Natalee. He said he listened to it five or six times in a row and his conclusion was that it was definitely just a small child making a call from a regular household phone with adult conversing in the background. He said that Beth reported it because she felt that every little thing should be reported. He said he intended to research where the call came in from, but personally felt that it was from within the US.

I think it is much less likely to have been her since he did not think it was his daughter. I say this because I would assume that he desperately wanted to believe it was her, but still concluded that it was not.

I have not read or posted lately because I have OTHER responsibilities, u know called life ???I could care less who chooses to bicker like an elementary school child !

See! When I started arguing you came back. I knew you liked me!

She's too ignorant to realize what we both said...we never went anywhere! I simply haven't had anything RELEVANT to post. No matter what we say or do she has a smarty pants, fifth grade response...

I really hope she realizes how foolish she looks...

Sorry for the multiple posts, just going through my inbox and reading these "posts"...
I would hate to think that I prided myself on drawing people to a board so they can roll their eyes at my snipes.

Someone needs to clue her in that we have been posting here since the summer. She does not determine crap for me. I seriously hope her computer gets run over by a reindeer.

To Miss Smarty Pants herself: GET OVER YOURSELF. No matter what we do, you claim you are influencing us. If I miss a couple days, oh, you ran me off. If we post a lot, oh, you brought us back. It is sad that you are proud to, in your opinion, draw people back due to their response to your absolute immaturity. Is your real name CJ? Because I went to junior high school with a guy named CJ and your lingo sounds soooooo much like him. He was that guy that everybody hated having to do a group project with, you know, the heckler. In fact, the stupid quips are so close, that when I read your posts, it is his voice that narrates them in my mind.

Confidential to those here for the NH discussion:

I can't keep this to myself...
http://www.vanityfair.com/magazine/pressroom2
(Some new info, I think...I am really interested in the info about Beth getting a call from NH before she disappeared...)

Why are you people still bickering about who is or isn’t bickering? Keemee is obviously an idiot, so why keep responding to her? Maybe if you stop, she’ll go away and others can read something besides your stupid back and forth.

Also Stefani, it’s interesting that you mention what a devout Catholic you are but have made several references to psychics and people who communicate with the dead (i.e. posts 154 and 257). Read your Bible lately? It’s very specific about that kind of thing.

In addition, your self-righteous attitude about not using bad language and criticizing others who do isn’t very Christian of you. A good Christian doesn’t have to wear it on their sleeve, you know - it says so in the Bible. Again, dust off that Bible and see if you don’t learn something.

Thanks for the opinion. I genuinely agree with you that we should ignore her. We tried, and she did not go away. We ignored her and it got us a bunch of snippy comments about running us off. I fully intend to ignore her in the future, but that is a much easier thing to do when people such as yourself speak up in acknowledgement that Keemee is an idiot. In our defense, Steph and I are the two people the Keemee singled out and made her targets. I would ignore it as much as possible if someone talked to me like that in real life, but if that person refused to stop snipping back at every little comment I made and kept on and on, I would tell them where to shove it. Again, having other people stand up and acknowledge the situation makes it 10x more ignorable.

What if the girl he was dating found him with her and went ballistic on NH?????? A Femme Fatale...ended up killing her??????? He pulls a Scott Peterson and says the girl did find out later but was ok about it. YOu guys might have aready seen it but you can read the full A Current Affiar interview at
http://scrux.com/natalee/joranunedited.htm

Joran van der Sloot: First of all, it is none of your business what happened. That is an investigation, which is still going on. And I just again, I am saying, I hope she is okay. I hope she is fine. And, I hope her parents find her.

Reporter: What happened down at the beach?

Joran van der Sloot: That is none of your business. That is part of the investigation.

Reporter: Ok. Have you had other girlfriends before?

Joran van der Sloot: Yes, I have had other girlfriends before.

Reporter: And were you seeing anybody when you were with her?

Joran van der Sloot: Yes, I was seeing someone when I was with her.

Reporter: So was that…were you cheating on this other person with her?

Joran van der Sloot: Yes, I cheated on this other person with her.

Hail Mary Mother of God, pray for us sinners now,
and the Pentecostal who posted earlier.....
they think I have a dusty Bible......Hmmmm

Why are you calling Columbo a pentecostal?

Anyway, I like the idea of a femme fatale. It is much more likely than the "Phone Call and Trafic" idea. Even Dave disagreed with it.

I didn't single you two out, you were just the people who kept telling every one else they were wrong, and I wanted to defend everyone, okay? Especially me.! :P

Guess why I am in such a good mood today.

Stefani -
Pentecostal - HA - shows how much you know.
Actually, I’m a person who just gets sick of people beating on their chest talking about what a great Christian they are while at the same time acting rather UN-Christian. “I’m so much more superior than you because I don’t use bad language ... I’m just far better than you ... blah, blah, blah ... You’re low class and I’m high class ... I use perfect English and will ridicule those who don’t ... I have important things to do in life and you don’t, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah!�

Pray for yourself, Ms. Holier-Than-Thou and judge of all. If you’re as classy as you say, you wouldn’t have to point it out to people. And I quote:

“The lack of use of vulgar language is definetly a sign of respect for oneself and others as well. A wondeful courtesy and character trait. I support any guy who does not use it. I do NOT view it as “Kewl�, hip, or not even macho. LOW CLASS all the way in my book ! I do not need to express my ideas via the F bomb, or the other nasty 4 letter words ! You and I, and others who also do not feel the NEED to use them are the true class on here.

Fly on the wall.....watch your back ! Someone just may use a fly swatter ON you, without notice !

Merry Christmas !

Where do these crazies all come from ?
The season ALWAYS brings them out in droves...........

Oh yeah, I’m just sooooooo crazy. Just a raving lunatic. Kind of like a middle-aged woman who spends hours on the Internet every day of her life writing long posts about Natalee Holloway and telling other people she’s so classy and wonderful.

fly on the wall

Oh yeah, I’m just sooooooo crazy. Just a raving lunatic. Kind of like a middle-aged woman who spends hours on the Internet every day of her life writing long posts about Natalee Holloway and telling other people she’s so classy and wonderful.

Thursday, December 8, 2005 at 6:38 pm

Keemee is that u posting AKA ? Sounds like it, or do u have a twin ?

Be nice to stick to the intended purpose of this board.

There are many forums who welcome idiots, with sujects NOT related to Natalee's disappearance. I am done with off topic lingo. NO MORE ! So, do not waste your time !

Anyone hear anything about the possible extradition of the Pukes and Joran AFTER Aruba declares this a cold case ? A retired FBI agaent said it is possible to extradite them to the USA after it is a cold case, and charge and try with circumstancial evidence. More circumstancial evidence available and known HERE than they had for Scott Peterson.

I am not familiar with all of the different the extradition laws...
They vary so much with different countries. In a case with kidnapping and/or murder, can a law enforcement agency other than where the crime occurred press the charges? (Can the US charge them with a crime committed outside of the US?) You usually hear of the local judicial system filing the charges.

RE:the Vanity Fair pressroom article on the NH case ~ Blaming Beth Twitty is wrong, a victim's mom doesn't have the power to prevent justice. Sounds like a rationalization for poor performance. The police there are small time, island cops and their first priority should be combing the island for clues and trying to find NH, not playing the blame game. Beth Twitty is a mom in pain, cut the woman a break and stay focused on the job.

I agree 100% about Beth Twitty's behavior being in psynch with a parent in pain...

I've known the band Dicemen for a while (musically) and they do have a "dangerous" name around here. Wrecking hotels and backstages, stealing, fighting, drugs and alcohol abuse, etc.
Though I seriously doubt they got anything to do with this. As far as I know they never were in Aruba. But if you search a little, you could definately find a couple of newsarticles about this bands doings.
I remember also a missing girl in a town called Dordrecht after a show they played. According to a news article the Dicemen took her with them. I don't know how this story ends, there never was a follow up as far as I know...
Still, they DO rock! :-)

I never interpreted the Dicemen clues to mean they had been the ones to snatch her or anything, just that they had inside info. Do some people think that they were the actual ones who got her????

I would also like to know more about this other missing girl...
But here's the deal: the whole living danderously, partying hard, trashing hotel rooms, etc. is such a part of the rock and roll image that if they don't do that stuff people don't give them any street creds...haha.

Guess why I am in a good mood, DB!!!

The onion is being peeled, deeper and deeper to its, inevitable, core....

Can I fry the onion when we're done? Im sorta hungry.

We have people telling us that they have searched the whole island and there is no place a body could be. However, we went on a 4wheeler tour and rode all around in the mountianous widerness and on the coast opposite the commerciallized beaches. I find it hard to believe that they literally, truly searched all of this terrian. It was very rugged.

OK. Somehow I just got the post about the timeline after I got your other two posts so now i see why you made the onion comment (Stefani).
Very interesting...

She could be trafficed, but I doubt it.

Keemee for Christmas I am sending u a personal "tard guard." Send me your address.

To date I do not feel that the Aruban LE will solve this case.I honestly feel that the USA will HAVE to extradite these 3 clowns to the US and try them here. As soon as the case is deemed cold, it CAN be done by the FBI.A former, retired FBI agent explained the process the other night. Circumstancial evidence is the ONLY way possibly to convict and charge these 3 clowns. I feel that Pappa Sloot probably fed that girl to the sharks.Therefore NO body, NO crime.

Ya, Stefani's right. Give it out. People want to know!

The article about Natalee Holloway is posted on line at www.vanityfair.com

Good and interesting read, but they sure BASHED Beth Twitty, and should not after all she has been though.

DB Would love an e mail address.

Tom:

If you know the music of the Dicemen, could you scan for a song that may hold clues to the NH mystery? Shango seems to hint at a song here:

http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html

Perhaps they wrote of their extracurricular activities. If so, this could truly be a Columbo moment....

Thanx

Columbo, you're back!!

The Enquirer has Aruban pics of a temporary shallow grave just discovered, quite close to the shark infested waters. Plus photos of the police scene upon finding it. It was dug with 2 shovels and they've recovered fibers and strands of hair. Let's hope there's damning evidence therein because the odds of anyone being alive, once they've ...you know.

And about the police complaining about Beth Twitty~if they can't do their job with an aggressive victim's mom, they're worthless and unprofessional. Worse still, crybabies. Yeah sure, it's Beth's fault they have no confession. More plausible: Daddy van Sloot is a slick well connected man with deep pockets who will fight for his son regardless of guilt, and then send him away to a safe school.

whoa! [play twilight zone theme music]

http://findnataleeholloway.blogspot.com/

Where are they getting the words from? Are they using combinations in some type of formula OR are they saying teh words just come to them mentally OR a ouija boards or what? I am not familiar...

I don't know about the astrology stuff.....sounds a bit hokey to me.

I wonder how high you would have to be to write that...

can't wait to see the finished product....bookmarking that website

good lead on posting #300....looking for articles, but results of searches are all Dutch :(

Columbo, use google. That happened to me too, but I found if I ran the search agian through google, a link asking if I wanted the article translated would appear.

Still waiting for people to guess...

Interesting story from Houston. After nine days of searching, police and volunteer efforts in the search for missing 12 year-old girl Teketria Buggs, who went missing from her rural home in Orchard (near Houston), are being called off. Authorities believe that foul play may be involved. I live in Houston and saw this story on the local news. Oddly enough, this story was the third story reported on the local news (that I watched) and a quick google news search (as of 5 minutes ago) yielded no news stories written today.

Teketria is a black girl and the family is of modest means. But the most disturbing part was the mother of the missing child's plea. She was absolutely hysterical in response to the search for her daughter being called off. She screamed (to parahphrase), "9 days! 9 days! Thats all! Why? They've been looking for Natalie Holloway for 109 days! We can't just stop!"

Tragedies like the Holloway case and the Buggs case mentioned above are horrible. And I do not mean to mitigate the urgency of the Holloway case, but there are reasons that stories like Natalie's become national and stories like Teketria's fade from local newstands as quickly as the weather forecast. Namely, Natalie's story stays alive for the same reason the television show Dallas stayed on the air - its a story with sex, violence, exotic dangers, politics, and 'your daughter'. The media knows this story will sell and despite most people's cynicism towards the whole thing, it just keeps going on. Added to this, is the fact that the Holloway family had the resources to keep this story alive (which at this point is hardly relevant since the story is now 'out there in a big way' and getting funded on its own intertia).

Perhaps I'm stating the obvious or perhaps not. My point is not to minimize the Holloway family's tragedy, but to simply publicize a mother's concern - '9 days!' The media needs to stop chasing the dollar and exercise some degree of civic responsibility by chasing the people responsible for tragedies like those of Teketria Buggs, which unfortunately are more common than we will ever know.

BUT COMON FOLKS!

LET'S LOOK ON THE BRIGHT SIDE!!!!!!!! There's no reason this has to scare potential tourists away from Aruba. With the right marketing and a few well-placed rumors, Aruba can turn this around and make some sweet cash off of this.

I think it is horrible to think of a search being called off BUT there is no telling what type of evidence they have that we don't know about. If they have evidence that tells them that they are not looking in the right places, etc., tit is not logical to spends tens of thousands just to make the public think you are trying. If they have very reliable info that a family member caused the death of the girl and that person has failed a lie detector or so on, they might be withholding that from the public. In that case, they would logically not spend $50,000 searching the wrong area for the public's sake. THere is that other case that is going on...I can't remember the little girl's name. She is about 6 and no one but her dad and stepmom have seen her in 18 months but that is VERY sketchy according to other family, etc. They called off her search because they felt that there was sufficient cause to believe the poor child has been dead and gone for a year and a half. And I can totally see the point. It is a double edged sword. (the hurt inflicted on the family by the end of the search vs. the waste of tax payers' dollars) It really is heartbreaking, though! I want to clarify, I absolutely do not meant o say that I think searching for a missing child is ever a waste of tax money UNLESS they have very, very reliable leads that she won't be found at all.

Also, I am glad you focused on the fact that NH's parents had the resources instead of just that she was still being searched for because of her race. It IS because of the resources and the efforts of the family, not because of race. If the next tragedy is another race but the family has the resources to keep it on the forefront, the public will be just as addicted to that story.

It angers me that, even though the family could not afford to look for her, not a single charitable person could stand up and empty their pockets to help them. It makes me feel guilty for being an American, a citzen of a rich country which can sweep things like this under the rug. DB's right though, and even though there was not a lot of leads, there is still very few in the Natalee case. Theyb won't find Tetrika's trail unless they look for it.

Still waiting, by the way...

Many compare the NH story with others, then bring race and socioeconimic factors into the discussion. It must not be forgotten that in the case of NH we actually know some of those who were responsible, and that they were actually arrested, but were subsequently released. This to me is the single most distinguishing characteristic in this case relative to others.

DB says @ #339: "BUT there is no telling what type of evidence they have that we don’t know about. If they have evidence that tells them that they are not looking in the right places, etc., tit is not logical to spends tens of thousands just to make the public think you are trying."

Yes, and it appears now that the stepfather (who is currently incarcerated on an unrelated charge) is a prime suspect in this case and, according to the press, the disappearnce of someone else...and so it appears that there's something more to this that is not being made public. If this is the case, then it makes good sense to call things off. The mother, however, was not pleased (to say the least).

Has it ever occured to anyone that the 3 guys might not have had anything to do with it?! Everyone is so media-obsessed about this whole thing. She went into the car with those guys, had a couple of drinks and they dropped her off. Maybe that's when SHE met some other guys, and went with them. Doesn't anyone feel like it's just a liiittle bit to convenient?? Everyone is being all b*tchy about the way Aruba is handeling things, i think the US should look at their own country first. I mean, BUSH is running it. I think that says enough. I say: 'Innocent 'till proven guilty'.

Yoey:

According to Shango that is exactly what happened:

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand (a cop) knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

complete: http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html

You don't think Deepak was refering to himself when he said '...would get into a car with 3 strange men.'

There are many, many posts that discuss all kinds of scenarios and possibilities. We have had discussions on here many times that talk about the some other corrupt person framing the three boys, too.

The very essence of this board is to scrutinize the info we are given.

Simian? or his doppleganger?

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:58 pm
DirtyHand (a cop) knows the Babylonians that provided escort after the 2 shivas left

Deepak: '....she would get into a car with 3 strange men....'

http://www.dicemen.net/

3 strange men - voila

after reading #350, read #300 (sorry)

Columbo:

I had posted the first reference "lollipop" at SM Theory and Speculations when i started gathering all of check's/sims/shango's posts and attempting to link them together and/or identify correlations....However, i never read the Evidentiary Review.....I am very impressed with your knowledge and articulation. I had taken a break from this case since AUG/2005 (since we were all banned) and it is very interesting to return and review everyone's theories and suspicions that i believe are accurate and warranted...You have served as the catalyst for me to become interested in this case again...(i never lost interest in Natalee; however I lost interest in my career in blogging abt natalee)......

excellent....maybe we can connect a few more dots....I joined the fold very late-never on SM

remember Shango-"one straight path?" look at the antithesis...

on a crook(ed) path
to the house of rave (lions rave)
of gold bricks
the road IS paved

the one in Chicago did $30,000.00 per night

http://www.mythforlife.com/predictions.html

Has this site been removed, or is it my pc ? Hmmmmmm ?????????????

and PVDS owns an older model Toyota....from which forensics were collected....and the route described apparently describes the one to his own house...not from C&C, but from Mamba's (a bar)

Yeah, sure. Fire Away!! :)

Okay...before i leave...columbo do a google search on Posner....and ALE HOUSE...u will see there are several connections with their locations and the posners'...this may not just be a play on words...also, the posners have commented on the ale houses that were in the vicinity of where joran wanted to attend school...I am leaving you all with disorganized jumbo...But i will be back to sort it all out...Until then..Kisses to u all

BTW--there is a crooked path one....

Ally....

have you seen this site that shows a picture of what is said to be "The Lions Den"?

http://64.69.33.211/nh/siframes.html

Thanks Deb.....yes, tonight actually i have had a better opportunity to read everything. Again, i have lost touch with this case (trying to deduce possibilities) since august...therefore, this was all new information for me...What i am trying to do is find the commecing link of Posners/slavetrade/vds/MIAMI/casinos/tattoo.........

Does anyone know if speakers, perhaps on a party boat, be large enough to transport/contain a human? (weight/density)...Thank you all for being cordial and filling in Sept-Dec gaps...I will be back in the morning....

Ally....

There has been a checkin that post on BlogsForNatalee from time to time. I will send him/her a message and see if this is the same person just a slightly changed spelling of the name.

My take is that the stolen crab trap and knife may be involved (Miraclist-weighted down the body).....if so, the boat could possibly have been the Caroline (evidentiary review)

Miraclist said the killer called someone that worked for him-a local....let's suppose PVDS did in fact work at the Lion's Den (Elders), this may make some sense

http://64.69.33.211/nh/siframes.html

http://www.mythforlife.com/predictions.html

With respect to the Lion's Den, Shango said that it could provide answers, not necessarily that it was a crime scene....I believe the answers will give insight to the maze and the lions....which he said ALE was trying not to reveal.

Deb did u know that your above post i posted on SM in July on Front Pagers??? Where did u get that....That was my post......Locate its authenticity it is mine.....Look at it Kat...that is my exact post from August........

Does anyone know how i can get that post it was from SM.net...FPP... it was early August and/or end of JULY...i actually got that from someone who was afraid to post it...but she privately emailed it to me

Sorry Ally, no can do. :( It didn't work for me either.

http://www.scaredmonkeys.net/viewtopic.php?p=64291&highlight=#64291

KEEP LOOKING AT THE SITE...i found it...u will see it....Deb xoxo

found it...go into the site...look for me in search and it shows all of the posts......i am reading all of mine (which are a few since the site was crashed...and i am also copy and pasting them)...

Hi Ally!

great stuff Ally

couldn't help but notice the coincidence leading up to the Congressional interest:

http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/kouri/051019

Shango said that ALE wouldn't pressure Van Rijn in order to prevent this from happening

Hi Ally....

I got the information off of BlogsforNatalee. You can do a search under Posner and come up with a lot of information on him. Do a Lorenzo search also. I believe that Posner, Mr Pink and Lorenzo are all connected through Porn, trafficking and drugs.

much love~

Kitty Kat kat~ Hi...much love to u to DEB..thanks, Columbo. I will be back when i find more stuff...

how many comments does on woman need??????? lol!!!!!!!!!!!

It is okay~ Chloe...i needed some luvin'....LOL...Columbo--have u read this? I think there is a relation....http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data2/circs/11th/0214306p.pdf

thoughts?

http://aruba.com/msgbrd/read.php?f=7&i=13353&t=13353

check it out

What's happened since I last posted? Any new leads?

Columbo~ I was reading up on your "soul" reference...wasnt the concert while she was there titled Soul Beach Concert?...was it a renaissance production event...DID MAZE perform??? was the DJ there...Freddy???

I think Shango finally fingered the Dicemen by name out of frustration....seems to be the only folks he references by name....speculation was all over the map when he used 'men who play dice and 'roll'' and 'dice throwers.'

As far as 'souls,' he seems to be furthering their identity by using a phrase right out of their bio from the website of their distributor (U.S.A.). Here is the page:
http://www.ludeboyrecords.com/bands.html
"The band is currently touring around Europe to infect poor innocent souls* with their dirty power rock'n roll."

~Now-Shango:
Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:57 pm
All know of the music
beckoning lost souls*
to enter the seven levels of inferno
who gave Mary the poison wine of Bacchus?
Enter the Maze.
[Also: on this website note the aliases used by the executives, and the location (SoCal).]

Shango Says:
June 28th, 2005 at 12:04 am
The gods of Babylon have orchested the refrain for the Arawak choir
the music which holds the answers lies within the maze
the cowboys will smile sweetly as the chorus sings
backs turned to the maze
never hearing a single note
from the poison song (the band has the answers)

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 11:23 pm
Follow the music
into the maze (musicians who played-V.I.P. -house of ill-repute)
the lions know they are being stalked
the gamblers and other Rollers talk (other bands- www.dicemen.net and click info-more bands)
tell the cowboys!

As far as the name of the concert and other bands I have no knowledge, but I'd say that Steve Croes and Freddy would most likely have attended. I have heard that NH did.

get the album and play it backwards. you will here something.

here something? or hear something? good job oldman....thanx for contributing!

Old man---thank u...i noticed that they (DICEMEN) coincidentally also had disseminated prizes to a select few called "the package".....columbo~the reference from the article yesterday abt the court case that i posted...there are a lot of songs that play off some of the words....for example, susie...suzie....choosy susie.... ALSO--THE JUDGE that convicted them was from Alabama...Judde Emmet Riply Cox Jr...(i know that this just may be a coincidence)...but it is interesting...What is also peculiar, is tht all the sites that i have visited that have been correlated with the "riddle"....most blogs from april 2005 to october 2005, have been erased........

may relate to this individual's identity

All of Shango's information comes from the higher power, Olorum
Shango has not danced with the lions, nor Arawaks,and does not keep their company
Shango does not know the ravers, and he is not Aruban.
Eyes of god may look from afar with great acuity (keenness of hearing, vision, INTELLECT).

Did you know that it is against US federal law for certain US Agencies to provide information to US law enforcement?

"Tell the Cowboys!"

Mike posner "left" approx. the same time Natalee disappeared. Former Chicago mafia connection, still connected and helped or orchestrated this disappearance of Natalee, huh ??

Olorum:

Check this NY Times Article

In light of the big US child prostitution sting announced today, I just want to say that the big difference here is that we are trying (and succeeding on some level) to stop it!

If that is going on here, where people have more freedoms that almost anywhere, then you know it is going on elsewhere. I really think Natalee is dead but what IF she is alive????

LOL. Some imaginations, guys! Combine all the theatrics and we have the making of a best-selling thriller.

Bella Many answers lie here

http://www.mcharvey.com/shango/shango.html

and there is no drama to it, just the truth IF we get it figured out....

This one is good too:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1454903/posts

The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is *more than one house* of music

Mary who was not a Virgin entered the maze to discover it’s secrets
The lamb is scared
The fires are lit (polis?)
But now the lamb is a goat

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 11:05 pm
DirtyHand has worked for the elders for a long time (elders ran the Den)

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:53 pm
DirtyHand is the key
He walks with the elders (works)
He walks in *all houses* (works)
And he walked with the fallen elder (worked)
he was the hidden card that was played
now if he sings, babylon will fall on the arawak nation

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon (illegal)
the girl knew this
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire. (work)

Great post Columbo ! Dirtyhand has a lot of answers for what happened to Natalee Holloway.

How convenient now for some of the bloggers to write blah, blah, blah about Natalee. Lies and rumors of her running away, of a pregnancy. Hiding out until January in the USA they say until 01/06, after she gives birth ? BS ALL of it.

Those 3 clowns in Aruba withg some dirty help did that girl in and fed her to the sharks....

Signals in the air....a perp walk may be in order shortly after the new year....does not look like the 3....or Paulus...he was holding all aces-he walked when ALE folded

an ex us diplomat has admitted to paying ransom to the kidnappers of his 18 year old son on dec 17,2005 in trinidad. his son was returned!! seems like a new carribean scam?? is it true that jurans father refused to allow search of his newly poured concrete patio??what the heck? everyone who was ever a 20 something man knows that two guys do not sit or stand around while their freind has $#x in their car!! it is really weird how shango s poem has unfolded to be true somehow. next time dumbpig arrives stateside he should be detained for aiding and abeitting/obstruction of justice. with decapitations/men dieing on the beach/men dieing inside locked containers ,aruba has no homicide detective?what the#@**?grab the monkey and have the sign lanquage monkey lady have the monkey tell her what happened. i still believe there is a message in the dicemans music.how do you spin a dics backwards?(remember music is reversible but time is not??)

so the Dicemen have a song that, when played backwards, will help solve this case? ....I think questioning these men would be of more use

remember-Deepak said NH dressed like a slut, acted like a slut....would get into a car with 3 strange men.....now, he couldn't have meant that he, Satish, and JVDS (who NH had been around earlier in the week) were 3 threatening strange men....now, if we go back to Shango,

The DiceMen ROLLED
Mary ROLLED
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is more than one house of music

suggests to me that there is NH, 3 VERY strange men, and they literally roll (ROLLED=drove) to another place....couple this with posting #300 on this board

With all this it is very difficult to believe that these guys would not know what had happened

Hey dont bring up countries into this.... Whatever happened to her is in the past.... Things like this happen all the time in the US.. so dont mock aruba or any other place it was specific bad people not a country ... i hate racists.......

Hey dont bring up countries into this…. Whatever happened to her is in the past…. Things like this happen all the time in the US.. so dont mock aruba or any other place it was specific bad people not a country … i hate racists…….

Whatever happened to "her" is NOT in the past, my friend, until her family has some closure and answers. Until then, this is in the present !

Racist u hate 'em, huh ? Well what are the Aruban residents who lied and "fingered" the 2 "black" security guards to get off the hook themselves ? Seems to me those 2 guys were far from white !

BOYCOTT ARUBA ! ARUBA SUCKS !!!

Well put, Stefani. Hmmmmm. Last time I checked Van der Sloot is Caucasian.

Screaming race regurgitates a cycle, as 99.9% of non-minorities know that attitudes toward fellow man are not about race. The other .01% who do have racist views are an embarrassment to the rest. It is obnoxious to CONSTANTLY be incorrectly told how I view other people.

It is about our behavior, our respect for fellow man, our ability to coexist in productive society, our ability to take personal responsibility for our lives…regardless of our race. Murderers do not know how to behave. Murderers clearly do not respect fellow man. Murderers do not know how to coexist in society. Murderers rarely take personal responsibility for their crimes.

Merry Chirstmas, everybody!! If you don't celebrate Christmas, have a nice day. (I don't do this "Happy Holidays" thing just to be PC on a Christian holiday. It kinda defeats the purpose, you know?)

I found this from BlogsforNatalee and thought I would post it. I find this very interesting and a possibility...

I continue to go back and re-examine some of the earlier possibilities first considered when Natalee went missing. It was rumored when Natalee disappeared that a Saudi prince had been present in aruba, and was there to consider the purchase of one of the casino's.
It would seem likely that he would be at least an acquaintance of Michael P. There was no official "after hours" party following the last night of Soul Beach Concert on the night Natalee went missing but again talk has it that there was a "party" in the Holiday Inn for some well connected people,high rollers, and possibly some band members. Could the hotel and it's corridors have been the maze which shango refered to? Could "follow the music" have been this after hours party? I think it's just as possible as some other possibilities......see what you think.

http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?noframes;read=72893

I would take it a step further. As NH was a being of deeply religious conviction, her profound disagreement with this fate may ultimately have led to her demise. The ALE stated publicly that they are investigating a premeditated murder...and in this context, the line that she 'never heard the buoy toll' gives stark insight into the motives of her captors (Curacao-where Amy Bradley was reportedly spotted) and her response. The huge brothel there is crawling with security guards dressed much the same as those JVDS claimed he saw 'assisting' NH.

i just found this forum and it has been interesting to read especially DB, Stephani, and columbo, but i am a little confused, where did this riddle come from and do you really beleive it could be related to NH? I pray for NH's safe return to her family!

"Shango's Riddle" is from the Scared Monkeys Forum I believe in 6/05. YES it is ABOUT her disappearance. NO doubt in my mind. It simply needs decoded. WHOEVER wrote the riddle, KNOWS what happened, or WAS there. Try to uncover it's true meaning, and HELP us ! LIGHT THE FIRES !!!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-backroom/1454903/posts?page=181,31

Where to start? Well, there is some very good points that people have made in this form/blog, what ever the hell you want to call it. However, there are those few that are obviously lacking the intellect to filter the creations of their mind, from actually contaminating real insight or fact. These people know who they are, and there for I need not say names, just to give one suggestion, reach around, place your hands firmly on your thighs, and with one swift, yet powerful move, remove your head from you’re a$$, take a deep breath of fresh air and take a look around!!
Some of the idiotic statements in this forum make me depressed that these thoughts actually came from other things that call themselves “human�. Statements such as “examine there bank records� or “obtain search warrants� would make complete sense if we were working on a case in the United States. Remember people, we are dealing with a third world country here!! The people who come up with these ridiculous statements have obviously never been out of the protection of the boarders of the United States. Other countries, believe it or not, don’t have the same laws and regulations as the US. Searches or warrants that are legal here, or even available here may not be in other countries or may just get you and your family killed. Especially third world countries with a corrupt governmental organization that is over run buy bribes, mafia buy outs and pay offs. The fact of the matter is that in a third world country, a blond hair, blue eyed, beautiful 18 year old all American girl would bring a very high payout in the sex slave industry that is over running countries such as Aruba and many South American countries that are in close proximity to Aruba.

As for the “shark eating� theory. Although it is possible, as everything is possible, it is not at all possible for the sharks to eat every crumb like a fat kid eating a chocolate cake on a Sunday morning before mom and dad wake up. Sharks aren’t fat kids, they don’t look for every last crumb to eat up, there for SOMETHING, ANYTHING would have washed up; for there to be no evidence, there is only a few possibilities. Like someone said in an earlier post, if there was more people involved (civilians) then, yes someone would talk, the guilt will eventually eat them apart and they will break, unless of course, it is bigger than that. Don’t you think that an up in coming judge in a corrupt judicial system would know some other corrupt people?? YES!! And if this up and coming judge’s kid were to do something stupid, with the possibility of screwing up his “up and coming judge� status, wouldn’t he do everything to hide, or cover up what has happened in order to not screw up his reputation? YES!!
The point of all of this is that this is much much bigger than people think. Small, isolated countries such as Aruba are an organized crime magnet. Everyone has a price, yes EVERYONE. With an organized crime ring running the government that this kid’s father was trying to become a part of, the scope of this situation extends beyond the comprehension of most sheltered Americans.
As for the “racist� post!! If putting pressure on a corrupt governmental system to prosecute the trash that came from the third world country that is responsible for this fiasco makes me a racist. Then you are DAMN RIGHT I am. If wanting answers from law enforcement from this country that has been sitting with there thumbs up their a$$ makes me a racists, then I proudly bare the name. If I am racists because I believe that people should be held responsible for their actions, whether white, black, brown, blue or yellow makes me racists, so be it. But if the racists card is the one that you have to pull because you have no other valid argument or intelligent explanation, then pull it, but the intelligent individuals will see through it like glass and know that it is only being played because of lack of intellect, and held with absolutely no valor.
If you are reading this and are not completely appalled, you are not paying attention. The fact is that this is a large problem that we, the United States, have not even begun to see the scraping of the surface for crimes like these. This can happen to you, and your children. And if more is not done, it WILL happen to you. I believe that Natalee is alive, although she probably wishes that she isn’t, I believe that she is, and has been off of the island since this thing has started, probably watching this unfold on the tele, and having no way of communicating with anyone who would or could help her. Other countries are not like the US, if you screw with the wrong people, or as a wrong question, your family tree is put in the wood chipper, literally!! And with whole governmental systems operating like this, what citizen would risk that.

Just a thought…
Iceman

Iceman~Wow how literate and true to the point your thoughts. I agree with you, and Aruba continues to screw the USA, and we continue to stand with our heads in the sand, and be screwed, royally !I saw a pic of Amy Bradley and one which could be her today. I feel she fell victim to the SAME corrupt people, who make $$ off of human lives !

Stefani-- Where did you get to see a picture of someone who could be Amy Bradley today? I want to see that. I can remember her case on Unsolved Mysteries in High School!!

I EXECUTE MY 5th amendment right to not self incriminate my self by the statements I am about to make!

On another note, Let me clear up some of the confusion about the whole, "drugged, drunk, date rape, ecstasy" misconceptions that people seem to have.
First off, yes, it is completely possible for one of the involved to have slipped something into her drink and her or her friends or anyone else for that matter knowing. How many girls in here have been to a bar where a guy, any guy, says “ hey, let me buy you a drink�!!! DING DING DING, we have a winner!!!! The date rape drug, which is called many things, I know it mainly as GHB, is a color less, odor-less, taste-less substance that can be mixed into anything and you wouldn’t even know it. And contrary to popular belief, it doesn’t make you pass out, or seem so drunk that you’re incoherent. What it does is take the drunken-ness to another level, mainly, loss of memory and inhibitions, much like alcohol. But still making people think that the person is just drunk like everyone else. But for the person, it’s much like a blackout period! Where you don’t know what you just did five minutes prior.
HOWEVER, this is not the same as ecstasy; I have sold many drugs, taken many drugs, and seen and helped many people on many drugs. Unless she willingly took ecstasy, it is HIGHLY unlikely that this was even a factor. The other part of ecstasy is that it doesn’t, like the date rape drug, start working quickly, it takes at least an hour to start to kick in, that is start to kick in, with the PEAK high being at around 2 and a half to 3 hours later. Unless of course that she chewed up the E-bomb, which anyone that has done that knows that you couldn’t possibly do that by accident. If anyone has ever held an Advil or any other pill of such in their mouth for too long, you get that nasty taste, take that and multiply it buy 10,000 and they you will know what chewing and E-bomb tastes like. NOT Probable!! The best answer is GHB, the date rape drug, she wouldn’t know, her friends wouldn’t know, no one would know except the person that gave it to her. The high that E gives is much like that of hereon or cocaine, it is a HIGH, you are energized, quick moving, and ready to run for hours. This is not the state of mind that they would want her in. they would want her to be out, but alive, willing but non-combative. They would want her drugged with something like GHB. It is possible, it probably did happen this way, and NO she wouldn’t be falling all over the place, passing out or any other such misconception like this. She would be normal, that is why these predators use it, so their victims appear in sound mental shape.

I HAVE BEEN READING THAT RIDDLE AND OMG! IF THIS IS TRUE WHY CANT IT BE GIVEN TO THE RIGHT PEOPLE TO INVESTIGATE. IT SHOULD BE IT SURE MAKES SINCE.
BETH SURE SEEMS TO BELEIVE JORAN IS THE RESPONSIBLE PERSON WHAT IF THIS IS TRUE AND HE IS NOT RESPONSIBLE! I STILL BELEIVE JORAN HAS SOME KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT HAPPENED TO HER!

GHB (gamma hydroxybutyric acid)
GHB has a few forms: a liquid with no odor or color, white powder, and pill.

What effects do these drugs have on the body?
The drugs can affect you quickly. The length of time that the effects last varies. It depends on how much of the drug is taken and if the drug is mixed with other substances, like alcohol. Alcohol can worsen the drug's effects and can cause more health problems. Also, one drug — GHB — can be made by people in their homes, so you don't know what's in it.

GHB

GHB can cause these problems:

relaxation
drowsiness
dizziness
nausea
problems seeing
unconsciousness (black out)
seizures
can't remember what happened while drugged
problems breathing
tremors
sweating
vomiting
slow heart rate
dream-like feeling
coma
death

How can I protect myself from being a victim?
Don't accept drinks from other people.
Open containers yourself.
Keep your drink with you at all times, even when you go to the bathroom.
Don't share drinks.
Don't drink from punch bowls or other large, common, open containers. They may already have drugs in them.
Don't drink anything that tastes or smells strange. Sometimes, GHB tastes salty.
Have a non-drinking friend with you to make sure nothing happens.
If you think that you have been drugged and raped:
Go to the police station or hospital right away.
Get a urine (pee) test as soon as possible. The drugs leave your system quickly. Rohypnol leaves your body 72 hours after you take it. GHB leaves the body in 12 hours.
Don't urinate before getting help.
Don't douche, bathe, or change clothes before getting help. These things may give evidence of the rape.
You also can call a crisis center or a hotline to talk with a counselor. One national hotline is the National Domestic Violence Hotline at 800-799-SAFE or 800-787-3224 (TDD). Feelings of shame, guilt, fear and shock are normal. It is important to get counseling from a trusted professional.

http://www.4woman.gov/faq/rohypnol.htm#1

http://www.projectghb.org/while_sleeping/sld001.htm

the most tantalizing clues were posted, then ultimately removed from here.....except for one:

http://www.coffeepotghost.com/

First, let me say, DEB>> GREAT INFO, and great links. The way to start stopping this from continuing is to educate the youth in this country and abroad about the cruelty this world poses. GHB is a huge problem and creates an avenue for predators such as which we are seeing the Natalee case. The information in your postings is a valuable tool that we need to start teaching the youth of this country about at an earlier age than we already do.
Now, Stefani, in summary, what I think has happened to Natalee is as follows; One of two possible scenarios, or maybe somewhere in the middle;
I believe that what we know up until this point, such as that she went with the three boys, and that she did it, what seemed to be willingly is for the most part what happened. Maybe a few minor changes, such as that they did use GHB to drug or “date rape� her. (After using GHB for personal use, I am almost undoubtedly sure this DID happen.) So her friends thinking that she was going willingly let her go. She may have thought, like I have read before, that she was getting into a taxi, or that her friends were coming with them. But being on GHB, would have forgot any and all conversations just five minutes later and like that, it’s done, they could say anything that they wanted and she wouldn’t have the recollection to refer to.
Now, this is where it gets debatable. There are a few different possibilities from here on. One is that after removing her from the public bar, the three drove to a remote location, either the two brothers left the Dutch kid with Natalee or they stayed. I think they stayed and they all raped her. Whether she was concise or not is irrelevant, whether she wanted one, I think that they all had their way with her. Here is where it gets confusing, it’s the difference between whether this was planned from the beginning or not. If it was not planned, then I think after they all raped her, they panicked. That is when the Dutch kid calls judge daddy. Daddy panic’s because he is an up in coming judge, in a corrupt governmental agency mind you, but he knows just the right people to call, so this is where I think that daddy steps in. Daddy comes and meets with the boys, and seeing the blonde American prize he has just found, decides to put her on the market. He knows how much a blonde hair, blue eyed, American girl would go for on market, probably about 1 million or so. So his friends get involved and either transport her to a holding location on the island, or get her off the island right away. I think they kept her on the island thinking that it would go like their other transactions have before, quietly. However after seeing the world wide attention that this case got within 96 hours, they realized they were sitting on a gold mine and couldn’t hold on for long, and then they got her off the island to any number of South American countries. Since the news coverage was so quick and there was so many people looking for this Alabama Honors student the price for her quickly jumped from 1 million to 10 million, or even higher. The point is, supply and demand, she was in the hearts and on the televisions of 90% of the civilized world. In the sex slave industry, this means high demand, low supply.
Now if this was already planned out, I think that the father and the Dutch kid were the organizers of this, with the backing and companions of the father and organized sex slave system. The two brothers were merely pawns in this game, maybe paid off; when you’re talking about millions of dollars for one American teenager, what’s 50 or even 100 thousand dollars per brother.
I do think that Natalee is still alive. I think she may even have seen the news broadcasts somewhere or somehow knows everyone has been looking for her. But if you’re in a different country, with a different language everywhere that you don’t speak, how do you get help? How do you tell anyone? You don’t!!
I remember back when this was coming together, and the father was starting to be looked at, I remember a report that the father was confirmed to saying to all three of the boys “no body, no case.� This is why I think she is still alive. Dead bodies create attention, especially when there were so many searchers looking for her so soon after her disappearance. And like I said before about the sharks, sharks don’t “lick the plate clean�. What the father was meaning by “no body, no case� was that if they don’t find her, they can’t do anything, like what is exactly happing. There is no body, because she is not dead, she has been removed from the island; therefore the case has gone cold.
As for the riddle, the riddle does look like it maybe from someone who knows more about this case they the pose to know. Stefani, your thoughts that they may be trying to clear the conscience maybe right on. We are in the day of the information age, where people who would never ever voice themselves before, will openly “blog� about their views and opinions. These form’s/blogs could be their release and their way of telling people without having to pay the consequences for their actions. Which they will ultimately have to live with; sometimes the own guilt and self torture is more punishment then can ever be judicially inflicted. The people responsible will replay what has happened over and over in their mind so much that they will in turn torture themselves to death, and then they will have to answer to a higher power, the one that knows EVERYTHING. Now if you noticed, I was careful to say “people� because I don’t believe that everyone that is involved has a conscience or a soul, and there for is not considered a “person� in my book. These predators will pay for what they have done, eventually.

OK, so I am not sure about the picture of Amy Bradley. It was very close in the aspects that they pointed out: chin, hairline, cheekbones and freckle/mole.

About the GHB and so on, I get where you are coming from, Iceman, and I agree that all types of stuff can be used recreationally for a totally different effect. However there ar times when the person is very torn up and needs help leaving the bar with the date rape drugs. The amount that you will be trashed is directly related to how much you take/get slipped. Just like drinking a few beers is totally different from a 6 pack, you know? My point is just that there really is no definitive level that these things tear you up unless you know how much they were dosed, etc. I think that CAN BE very broad. I do not think she was on X for the same reasons as you (she would likely know and I don't think she would have done that the night before going home--but then again, maybe she wanted the night to last forever and to stay up all night. I mean for that sake, it could have been acid. I just think that possibilities are endless b/c none of us know what she thought about drugs deep down. She could have been dropping acid after the Mountain Brook football games for all we know.). I don't really know if I think she was on any kind of harder drug. You can imagine a 17 year old out partying and getting drunk. I don't mean that I think that she would be all, "Woohoo! Let's go have an orgy!" just because she smoked the dope while already drunk. But I do think that doing stuff like that together with no experience could have led her to be all, "whoa. The ceiling is spinning. I think I need to close my eyes for a minute."

You are giving them too much credit...meaning giving them credit for being smart enough to know all about dosages and stuff.

I have put myself in some situations in my life that I thank God I am not buried in a shallow grave somewhere, never to be found...because I thought a person who lived in my apartment complex was perfectly safe to ride with just bc I had talked to him at the pool that week. He could have been a serial killer. You know, you have 8:00 class and you have been drinking and the friends won’t leave so he offers a lift. (that was a completely made up scenario but similar things did occur) I think she left with them very willingly. I don’t think drugs made her do it. I think that is putting too much power on drugs and not enough on a younger person’s psych. I am very smart, but have still done so many scary things when I look back, b/c I was spontaneous and spunky and fun. When you are young, you are down for whatever. You are excited to be invited along to a party. You think you are a great judge of character and that this guy, oh come on, THIS guy…we’ve been flirting all night and he is funny and polite and he could never be a predator.

Said it before, I'll say it again, only stupid kids take on that persona of a stoner in front of their parents when they are in fact hiding a bong in the closet. Only stupid date rapists give off the creepy vibe and make you feel uncomfortable right away. The smart ones know how to hide it until it is time to let loose.

DB – You’re completely right that different substances have different effects on everyone with and depending on the dose. The only thing is that I give them absolutely NO credit regarding the doses; when I did the GHB post, deb357, within 30 minutes had three or four different sites regarding GHB, its effects, prevention, dosing, and so on. My point being that in about five minutes, these predators could become complete experts on body weight verses dosing just by finding the right website or speaking to the right person. Either way, if she left willingly, or unknowingly, something happened after that like rape or planned abduction and like that she is gone.
I think that if this was some sort of terrible accident, like she fell and hit her head or something, eventually one of them would have or will break. If you had something like that on your conscience and you were being interrogated, eventually ONE of them would give in. since thus far, none of them have, it leads me to believe that this goes deeper than what is seen on the surface. It is bigger than just the three boys and the judge father. Maybe it stretches as far as the government in Aruba, or even the corrupt government of Venezuela, a mere 17 miles east of Aruba. With such close proximity to such a corrupt country, it is hard to believe that there isn’t some sort of influence or organized crime that has made its way into Aruba or its government. All the father would have to do is know one person that knows the right people to call when they need someone to disappear; especially when it’s a beautiful American teenage girl; that’s a lot of money to them. Not necessarily saying that this was all planed from the start, just that the opportunity presented it self because the Judges kid screwed up, and someone involved knows how much someone would pay for a American teen, so they kill two birds with one stone. They cover up whatever it is that they need to by getting rid of the “body�, and they get paid for it. Like I said before, the father is confirmed as saying to all three of the boys “no body, no case�; he is a judge, he knows how the judicial system in Aruba works, and knows that if there is no dead or alive body to prove a crime happened, then nothing can be done. It’s like asking the head security guard at a bank the best way to break into the place and what the codes are. It’s also reported and recorded that on of the brothers, while being interrogated told police in one statement that all three of the boys “banged that little slut�. But then later he has changed his story to match the other two. There are five police officer signatures on that statement witnessing the brother state this.
For the sake of Natalee, her family, and everyone close to or involved in this case, I do hope that I am completely wrong. I hope that it was a tragic accident; that she was taken back to the lord quickly, peacefully, and without pain or agony. But from looking at this case in great detail, examining what we know for sure, and what evidence, or lack there of, is present, I find this to be highly unlikely. I think that what I have stated here is or is close to what has unfortunately happened; that she has become the victim to the worst possible sexual crime imaginable, and is merely a toy in the sick, twisted mind of her violator. The unfortunate part about this is that I think this is so big, and stretches so far that we will never know just how deep this rabbit hole goes.

prediction: perp walk soon-perhaps as early as next week...another name, perhaps not entirely unknown to throw around threads

LLANOS connection?
http://findnataleeholloway.blogspot.com/

[play twilight zone music here]

LLANOS story:
Suit Claims Drummond Coal Stole Rights to Oil

By Stephen Flanagan Jackson

BOGOTA, COLOMBIA - Already facing civil charges in the murders of three of its Colombia employees, the Drummond Coal Co. now must contend with a lawsuit alleging racketeering in a scheme involving the president of Colombia to illegally divert oil concessions to Drummond.

Drummond Coal Co., based in Birmingham, Alabama, operates a lucrative coal mining operation in northeast Colombia which exports coal all over the world, including to Mobile, Alabama where one of its largest customers is The Southern Company and subsidiary, Alabama Power, and coal-generating electric companies in Georgia, Mississippi, and Florida.

The Dutch owners of Llanos Oil Exploration Ltd. charge Drummond with racketeering in the latest civil complaint against the privately-held company which sprang out of the hardscrabble, coal-laden hills of Walker County in rural Alabama some 70 years ago.

Albert van Bilderbeek, a majority owner and executive of Llanos in Colombia along with his brother Hendrik, says Garry N. Drummond, the coal giant's CEO, was involved with Colombia's president, his top aide, and Ecopetrol, the Colombian's government agency that oversees and administers mineral rights, in a fraudulent scheme to steal Llanos'oil rights - and vast, untapped oil reserves potentially worth billions of dollars - in Las Nieves (The Snows) block near Drummond's La Loma, Colombia coal mines. Las Nieves is in the Cesar department --or state - of northeast Colombia near oil-rich and unstable Venezuela. Llanos officials compare the oil deposits to the La Paz and La Mara oil fields of Venezuela - the major oil fields that make that Hugo Chavez-led country the world's eighth largest oil producer.

"The litigation has no merit whatsoever," said Drummond's attorney in the civil action, George Menico, Jr., of the Miami law firm of Holland & Knight. Officials for the Uribe administration and for Ecopetrol tell Bogota media no wrongdoing transpired and that Llanos defaulted on its concession through its own mismanagement and problems.

Garry Drummond is a powerful behind-the-scenes power broker in Alabama and a major contributor to political candidates and to the president of the Alabama Public Service Commission which regulates the utility industry. He was recently inducted into the University of Alabama business school hall of fame and is a trustee emeritus of UA.

The suit was filed in April in federal court in Orlando, Fla. where Llanos has an office in addition to its Colombia operations. The complaint charges Colombia President Alvaro Uribe, his closest advisor Fabio Echeverri, and several officials of Ecopotrel with corruption, abuse of power, intimidation, and threats in order "to steal" oil rights from Llanos and award them to Drummond. The Llanos action is being brought in the U.S. District Court under RICO, the Racketeer Influenced and Corrupt Organizations Act, and Florida common law.

Van Bilderbeek says the defendants control Colombia law, Colombia law enforcement, and the Colombia judiciary in that civil war-wracked South American country and, therefore, the case should be heard in the U.S..

The murders - or wrongful deaths - civil lawsuit facing Drummond is also being heard in the U.S. - in federal court in Birmingham under the gavel of judge Karon O. Bowdre who recently presided over the acquittal of Richard Scrushy, the fired Health South Corp. CEO recently acquitted of orchestrating a $2.7 million fraud.

Drummond is alleged to have been complicit in the assassinations of three of its Colombia employees - all union leaders. Attorneys for the slain Colombians' families and labor union say that particular case is at least six months away from a jury trial - if it ever reaches that stage.

Depositions in the case are due to be taken soon from Garry Drummond at his plush Beacon Parkway offices in Birmingham and from Augusto Jiminez, Drummond's general manager in Colombia.

In the Llanos case, van Bilderbeek alleges that Drummond is in a "symbiotic and cooperative" relationship with both the regular Colombia military and the paramilitaries at Drummond's huge open pit coal mine in Colombia.

"Drummond pays the paramilitary out of a slush fund account," the Llanos lawsuit claims.

In Colombia both the right-wing paramilitary and the left-wing communist guerrilla - along with the Colombia drug dealers - are labeled terrorists by the U.S. in Colombia's interminable civil war which often targets innocent civilians in violent atrocities and land removal. Both extremist groups are known to profit from the illicit drug trade and other illegal activities.

The U.S. has recently dispatched some $3 billion to Colombia under Plan Colombia - 80 percent military aid - in a futile effort in the so-called drug war and to defeat the last remaining leftist insurgency in Latin America.

President Bush is expected to discuss progress in the aerial spraying of coca crops and further use of U.S. military in Colombia when he meets with Colombia president Uribe at Crawford, Texas, August 4.

Plan Colombia restricts the numbers of U.S. military in Colombia to 800 with the defined purpose of providing "logistic and training support" to the Colombia military. The U.S. restrictions also call for a cap of 600 U.S. citizens as U.S. government contractors in Colombia and, in fact, many of these are recently-retired U.S. military.

The Llanos Oil suit, according to van Bilderbeek, focuses on the "theft of our mineral rights and a turnkey oil production project - not the paramilitaries."

Van Bilderbeek says the paramilitaries - specifically the AUC - the Spanish acronym for United Self-Defense Forces of Colombia - came into the picture when, Echeverri, an aide of Colombia's president falsely advised the DEA (the U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency) that Llanos Oil was in cahoots with the AUC "to launder drug proceeds."

"This absolutely false allegation was designed to pressure Llanos Oil to give up its mineral rights so that they could be taken over by the Ecopetrol principals," alleges the suit, which further claims, "Ecopetrol itself was widely suspected of operating a drug organization protected by the Colombian army in the Cesar area" - the state in which Drummond operates its La Loma coal mine.

"Right now my brother Hendrik, the president of Llanos, is being held in La Modela prison in Bogota on suspicion of drug money laundering," van Bilderbeek tells me.

The van Bilderbeek brothers - also U.S. citizens - are also taking their situation in front of the parliament in Holland.

The head of Ecopetrol, according to the lawsuit, is Fabio Echeverri, also named as a defendant. Echeverri is President Uribe's chief of staff and "also an agent of Drummond and it was Echeverri who had initiated the corrupt scheme to divert the mineral rights originally leased to Llanos." Echeverri denies any wrongdoing and tells Bogota media that Llanos defaulted on its lease through its own mismanagement and that the suit is sour grapes.

Van Bilderbeek says once Ecopetrol terminated the concession to Llanos the awarding of the contract to Drummond in December 2003 was perpetrated in record time of 18 days. "This process normally takes a year or more," says van Bilderbeek.

We do not know if Drummond wanted this petroleum deposit - which could potentially become the most important oil deposit worldwide in years - for the extraordinary crude potential of light or for the strategic location near its coal mine - or for both reasons, according to Harrison Slaughter, Llanos' Orlando attorney.

Slaughter charges in the suit that "part of the planning of the scheme occurred in the offices of the Drummond companies in the U.S."

A shorter, edited version of this story also appeared in today's Birmingham News.

South America is certainly riddled with corruption, but it seems unlikely that NH could be hustled into the slave trade. Unless of course Joran had been extended tremendous credit for his gambling, with the stipulation of how it was to be repaid. But a straight A student would eventually get away.
There's no mention of the tabloids pregnancy story here. Is that because it was ridiculous? A girl drinking liberally is not preggers. At this point I'd have to agree with Beth Twitty to boycott the island until justice is served. Which is too bad, I've been there and it was a lovely small island.

watching Greta 1/2 - Beth signaling unmasking of 'Dirtyhand'

the police will not be spared, "All will get sick"

interrupted by press conference for trapped miners....may resume with Greta on 1/3

may explain some Shango quatrains

how would they tell she was pregnant from DNA of cleaning fluid/chocolate?

You lost me there with the pregnancy question, Columbo.

I guess they would be testing to see if it was really written by her, not to see if the author was pregnant. If DNA proved she wrote it, why would she say that if it weren't accurate.

When you are pregnant normal secretions from the skin, eyes, nose and genitals contain progresterone, and other unusual hormones. Its how pregnancy tests work.

COLUMBO

prediction: perp walk soon-perhaps as early as next week…another name, perhaps not entirely unknown to throw around threads

Thursday, December 29, 2005 at 4:39 pm

Yup the perp has walked~all 3 perps to be exact ~the requestioning projection for "during the holidays" was all BS by the Arubans ~ lipserservice to continue to "draw" our US tourist $$ to Aruba and to calm down those in an uproar about Natalee.

The 3 "persons of interest " on Aruba were arrested unconditionally. Way to go Aruba ~ feed the fire for the corruption down there. Protect those 3 losers and all those involved.

The best act of this drama was the letter that Pappa Sloot "SAID" he rec. from Natalee, where she stated ? she was pregnant and living in the US, until she gives birth, then will divulge this entire scene of details ?

MORE BS from Aruba ~ TOO many IDIOTS heard and thought, hmmmmm maybe ? ~ simply BS and WELL PLANNED lipservice to remove the heat from Urine and the 2 Pukes.

I am NOT stupid, and know they did something awful to her, and I hope they choose that soon to tell the truth will set them free.

I am not trying to attack her integrity, I was only to explain for Columbo how they could test samples to find out, okay? I never said she was, I was only answering Columbo's question. Sorry if it came out the wrong way. ;)

How could ALE put forward that the DNA suggests that NH was pregnant when there was allegedly none? Beth to open her diary on Greta....she's at the table with Dirtyhand and signaling that she may play that poison card!

JVDS and K2 not murderers-but dirty....will skate. The perp walk may feature a new or lesser known name. PVDS is Houdini....had all the right cards and played them to perfection.....who knows who else was present on that fateful night....or who they may have been related to......PVDS knows.....

Right you are Columbo!! PVDS does know, and has had and still does have all the right cards. HE IS A JUDGE, he is not new to all of this. He knows how to work the system and what he needs to say, when he needs to say it.
The thought that Natalee is hiding out in the US is ridiculous and the person that dreamt up this unintelligent thought needs to be awarded a “Darwin� award. If it was even remotely possible that she was in the US, don’t you think that someone, anyone may have seen her? Or maybe she is just hiding out in the forest all by her self, giving her self her own prenatal examinations and is going to just bite down on a maple branch or ten to alleviate the pain from child birth. WAIT, now that its put like that, yeah, I guess that it could be true……..
Like Columbo said earlier, its just a ploy from Aruba and the corrupt Aruban sex slave pimpin government to get more American money and pretty teenagers down there so that we can start this process over with a new All American Prego Runaway. Boycott the island, make them pay where it hurts, the pocket book… or if it was my way, id just go down there, obtain a list of all the Aruban officials and their children, then locate them, and pimp off their children to the Venezuelan sex slave industry. But that’s just me.

Well....we could also look at it this way....

She was raped by the boys....and became pregnant from being raped....
Her captures forced her to write the letter and had someone move the letter to USA and remailed it to make it look like it was sent by her. Placing her fingerprints, DNA ect. on the paper and or envelope. So it's been 7 months now since she has disappeared. Food for thought!

letter to create reasonable doubt for O.J. jury

7 months have passed and NO answers. Dirtyhand continues to hold the cards.We will never KNOW WHAT happened to Natalee. Cohen is a LIAR also. But on Aruba Nadira said that we all lie......so I guess it is ok. SHe had her boys with her to celebrate Christmas and to welcome the New Year in, but Beth Twitty had NO daughter, and it is ok on lingers on unsolved, because Pappa Sloot said, NO BODY NO CASE !

ARUBA SUCKS..........

BOYCOTT ARUBA !!!

1 missing US girl missing on their island without answers is 1 TOO many for me and should be for the rest of the USA in a United front !

who ever gets the public perp walk will mysteriously "commit suicide" ....or a "Jack Ruby" patriot will be blackmailed into murdering the "perp" under the guise of avanging the damage he had caused to Aruba...all from the ol' greaseball playbook...after that happens nobody will ever talk....my prediction

Deb, that's what I was thinking too. I don't think she was pregnant, but if she was trafficed and those three got their way...

The only problem with that theory is that they would have had to have kept her, or she would have had to have been in hiding for at least two to three weeks. Pregnancy isn’t something that is detectable right away. She wouldn’t have even had a clue for a few weeks at the least, and as we all know, this thing got started right away. I have a hard time believing that she would have hid out for that long on her own accord.

Iceman, Don't worry...you aren't missing some big news release! It's in The Enquirer. HAHA. I have not heard any other sources unless they, at some point, reference back to the tabloid.

ON another note:
Lots of ladies know when they can get pregnant each month. If you want to look at it that way, she could have known that she just might be from having been attacked or whatever. But that is so far fetched to think she's run off b/c she knew when that 2 or 3 day window was and thought there might be a chance. To say she was pregnant before she went is possible but I don't buy it. Classmates, boyfriends, whatever would have to be some heartless people to supress that info to protect their own images when it is someone's life at stake.

Ooops, sorry. I only read the first two sentances of what you wrote. My apologies.

letter concocted to create reasonable doubt....remember-dealing with judges here....and one is dealing from the bottom of the deck

the pregnancy theory was signaled by ALE, but if the blood was chocolate, where could they have gotten DNA if they've said they have no evidence? watch Greta....Beth revealing some of diary-Dirtyhand

The letter was said to have supposedly been sent to Paulus Van der Sloot in September. 4 months after Natalee's disappearance. And said to have been sent from Arkansas. Where Beth was visiting at the time of Natalee's disappearance. Or had been visiting prior Natalee's disappearance. But, the letter was a cruel hoax. It's was meant to put more spin on this horrid nightmare. People in this world can be really mean, cruel, hurtful. And I hope they find fingerprints of the real person who sent the letter and process that into USA and arrest the person for doing this to hurt the family of Natalee and a sad attemp to hurt the investigation.

I was just using the example for how Natalee could be pregnant and her fingerprints be on a letter or envelope. Was just speculation and a theory.

does anyone know what this "letter" was supposed to have said???

It has not been published for viewers to read but claims are said that Natalee states she is alive and well. She is supposedly pregnant and after Janurary she will come forward and tell the truth. That she is sorry she has hurt her family and friends but needed to be on her own. Or something like that. I believe the reason why we haven't heard anything on the letter is because it was looked on as a hoax and we probably will not hear anything else about it. As columbo said....a spin for reasonable doubt.

That entry hit the nail on the head of debunking the theory when it said Natalee was pregnant but would come forward after January...

If she was in hiding to hide a pregnancy, then once she told them she could come home. She would not stay in hiding once everyone knew anyway...I would assume.

If she were hiding out then one would presume that it would be of her own free will....if that were the case, it is highly unlikely that she'd continue to perpetuate the story when the media frenzy hit....after all, that would have been the last thing she would have wanted if it were true

let's not forget that ALE is investigating a premeditated murder....they've said as much....and these words are not used lightly

Remember Shango....

Follow the Star....
[IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/img14.jpg[/IMG]

Notice the background "star" lit up at night....
[IMG]http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b341/dkpen/Joranfriends2.jpg[/IMG]

RE the second pic:
Call me ugly, call me judgemental...but if that boy on the left, Joran or the boy on the right showed up to pick up my daughter for a date, she would not be going. They all look drunk and/or like creepy date rapists. The other tow with joran look about 15, too.
I could not see the first pic. But the star was quite noticeable in the second!

You hit the nail on the head, Columbo.

see #246....Dicemen and 'other (rock&) rollers'=V.I.P. (high rollers='ROLLED')

y did all the comments stop?

nowhere else to go with speculation....hopefully the rest will unfold soon in the news

In the article, it claims that the letter says that there would be saliva under the stamp and on the envelope's seal to prove it was Natalee (DNA). That might be true, but she could have been forced to lick the stuff. Her DNA on the envelope doesn't prove that she wrote or endorsed the message inside.

Ahhh... True story DB. Unless she comes forward at the end of the month we will be forced to continue to speculate on this.

Tim Miller owner/founder of Tex. Equasearch and Florida State Univ. FORENSIC dive team are returning, very prepared to do ANOTHER search in the sea, where it is DEEP for the remains of Natalee. I believe that Pappa Sloot and the three "little bears" are getting nervous, and have every right to be. Would like to see them imprisonned for what they "claim" they did not do, but we know better. The ball is in the US court this time and I hope they take it to the hole !

I have a feeling that the ALE is not going to allow TES Tim Miller and Equusearch return. I have a feeling they are going to refuse any more searches in Aruba or assisting with equipment to TES. But I wish them all the best, I hope they get to Aruba and do the deeper searches with no problems. I just don't see it happening. :(

Maybe Beth should, in a very public way, show up in Aruba with all the assistance that would be needed for a deep water search and then let ALE tell her very publicly that they will not allow it to be conducted...prepare the legal landscape

Hey stef

That's an idea....but without the proper lisence for the search and approval for the media to enter Aruba they will be arrested....And I believe they are just looking for anything to arrest Beth on since they dislike her and called for the boycott...I believe they would look for anything at this point to arrest Beth on.

Tim Miller stated that ALL permits for the search on Aruba mid to late January are in order. I guess Dompig and the clowns don't think that they will find anything.Just 1 sliver of bone, just 1 fragment is all I hope they will find and then.......we will see what happens to the clowns, but rem. the incinerator is there and its operator got whacked shortly after Natalee's disappearance............

Tim Miller and Texas EquuSearch Headed Back to Aruba in search of Natalee Holloway
As reported earlier Tim Miller of Texas EquuSearch and a team from Florida are headed back to Aruba to search for Natalee Holloway. KPRC Local 2 is reporting that Miller and the deep water search team will travel back to Aruba on Friday to search an area three to five miles off the island’s coast that is between 800 to 1,000 feet deep.

Miller told KPRC Local 2 that Aruba’s police commissioner told him that he feels Holloway might be inside a fish trap dropped deep into the water.

“The night she disappeared is the same night a fisherman’s hut got broken into and a huge fish trap got stolen. Some big knives got stolen, and none of it has been found since,� Miller said.

The cage the commissioner referred to is similar a crab
trap people could buy at a hardware store.

Tim Miller states that if Natalee is in such a fish trap that he is optimistic in finding her. Miller is bringing the proper equipment for such a search.

“If she is, in fact, in that huge fish-trap like we think there is a possibility, I am optimistic that the equipment we’ve got will be bringing Natalee back,� Miller said.

The founder of the volunteer search-and-rescue organization told KPRC Local 2 that he does not believe Holloway ever left Aruba.

Tim Miller and Texas EquuSearch like in so many other searches for missing person has just one goal.

“Our whole goal is none other than to bring Natalee Holloway home,� Miller said. “It’s too early to just say it’s over with. There are still some things to do !"

I just wanted to be the one to post the 500th message

:-D

#500 WHat do u feel they will find when Tim Miller returns to Aruba this Friday to search in the deep water. I hope they find something, like a cage or a knife !!!!Many people will fall IF they find her body in the sea. TOO many lies and too much corruption have taken place.

geez you don't have to yell....lol

And i think Tim Miller is returning in 2 weeks...not this Friday.

Tim Miller from Texas EquiSearch was on Fox on Friends this AM.....going hunting for a missing crab trap in deep water.....no word on suspects, but the teaser suggested that one may not have the alibi first thought

Happy New Year everyone! Stefani, i am here honey..LOL..kisses to u.

I have to tell you all that I concede with Iceman and think that she is still alive. Like he had stated, PVDS immediately said "no body, no crime". The only way that one can be so certain that a body was going to be found, is because the body was OFF the island or would be transferred off the island. This is a small island, and PVDS and son know the right people; thus facilitating in Natalee's transfer. With their apparent affiliation with organized crime and/or Michael Posner, they would not have been so ignorant to have buried her on the island. Do u all remember that when JVDS told people that he was with her the night before (when he went to school...he was bragging). If they had killed her and buried her the preceding night, one would think that he would not be disclosing this information to his peers, or at least his father would have advised him not to. He knew that she wouldn't be found.

ally missed u ! glad to read a post from u ! natalee could be alive, but i think that they placed her in the crab cage, which is missing, and weighted her. dropping her off shore 4 - 5 miles in that cage would somewhat assure them that they were home safe. who would have ever thought that tim miller or FSU would dive and search in water over 1000' deep ! IF she is out there i have faith that they will have at least a shred of incriminating evidence. in a cage there would be some remains, not a lot, but some perhaps.

how about the desecration of the graves in the cemetery there on aruba ? NOT EVEN the dead are sacred to these subhumans !looking at the pics they did not disrupt 1 or 2, but many. what is the message ? r they lqqking for natalee's body, or is this a message written by drug dealers to fess up and get rid of the cowboys ?

IF they do locate a fragment of a deceased natalee in the sea i would assume that many will go down, pappa sloot, dirtyhand, many, many, and it is long overdue !

Stefani--XOXO--yes, u could be right. Did u by any chance read the transcripts from Jamie Skeeters interviewing Deepak? http://scrux.com/natalee/skeetersseg3script.htm

There are 6 at www.scrux.com. I dont know. He seems like he really doesn't know anything and it is amazing how they did distort the interview. (u can listen to the audio as well, and see the video. Deepak, i am sure knows some things, but as far as the most important facts of this case; he just seems to be out of the loop. What do u guys think?

Oh where, O where can Columbo be?....oh where, oh where can he be?.....i want ur input on the above please :-D...

it look as though Deepak is in need of money...I really think he was a pawn. I think for sure this is a much bigger game. However, i really do not believe that the K2's are the players...They were used, or perhaps blackmailed..

I think the brothers are just pawns in this game, not blackmailed, but more of a "guilty by association", meaning that not planned they got involved, but because this is SO LARGE, and so much bigger then them, they knew that it was either go along and cooperate, or join NH. It is too small of an island, with too large and organization of crime to not be controlled by it or even contribute. They all know the truth, and they all know the consequences; the consequence of confessing or telling, and the consequence of not cooperating. Columbo is correct, the game we are hunting is much bigger, the problem is that we don’t know exactly how big, but just know that it is VERY BIG!!

Okay--this is difficult for me to admit; however, i will...(i am a professional now)..but, i have done X in my best. Iceman, I read ur above posts and Columbo, i have read many of yours. I re-read the riddle, again, for the 100th time and i have to tell u guys that i think that ROLL is used repeatedly and in caps..b/c they were on x. Which means that she probably didnt resist and went willingly.

Columbo, i know u speak of religious conviction; however, please remember that she also allowed guys to lick body shots off of her in the bar. I remember when i saw the pic of her at the bar, she had sunglasses. At that time, i also remember thinking..."she is rolling"..When I rolled, i used to wear sunglasses, as the light would bother my eyes, and i did not want others to see that i was under the influence of X....especially some friends. The riddles says that the Dicemen rolled. I am sure that they did not also consume GHB themselves. Think abt it, that would be ridiculous. She was screaming, from the car.."i love aruba!"...and Deepak repeatedly says "you have no idea how easy it was"..She was on x. People that are on X...always go to after parties where there are music. Dicemen were performing in Aruba that same weekend. I am sure they were at the party and i am sure they had a lot of money on them from the concert.

Posner-PIMP---Dicemen-Customers PVDS, JVDS-vehicles and JVDS was the bait...

Posner could have seen, on video from the holiday inn, that Natalee was all into Joran. Her friends state that she approached him first. Posner could have seen her blonde hair, blue eyes, and already recognize her interest in Joran. ....

She took X, and the rest was easy..Remember on X you are uninhibited..I remember, too, that i trusted everyone under the influence. You love everyone and don't doubt anyone.

I agree Iceman..It is much bigger...and i think this may have something to do with Pipkins...(PIMP) that was convicted in Georgia...and Mr. Pink...Posner.

BTW--Mr. Pink has a site where he is offering Cuban Women as Escorts. Remember, too that Joran was in Miami in April and Deepak was enrolled to attend college here. Coincidence..I dont think so. These older men, need the younger ones to pick up the girls. Once they do, they drop them off, and the rest is left with the elders...The politicians (corrupt), the law enforcement (corrupt)..and organized crime leaders.

Memorial Weekend/holidays is probably when they have the most tourists, and the most customers in regards to prostitution

Have u guys seen this??????

Read it...

http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/dicemen.htm

Columbo--EXACTLY!

while we're on the subject.........

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 6:13 pm
His lordship did not bring the key, it does not exist.
doors to eden remain closed. [Eden=crime scene]
The arawaks hold the singing cards. They have the babylonian and 2 shivas. But the other card is dirty.
Even if you play cards in the house of babylon as an arawak, you still have DirtyHand.
[is this the lie husbands tell?]
If DirtyHand comes out of hiding, Babylon will fall and the cowboys will circle the wagons.
DirtyHand can destroy the Arawaks and Babylon.
Better to prepare the sacrifice quickly so the cowboys go home
without the loot

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 8:11 pm
One straight path
to the house of Rave, (house=Casa....Casablanca?)
while of gold bricks (ca$ino)
the road is not paved, (you won't get rich)
answers mysterious lie within
magical letters which spell sin
XTC DNA

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 8:25 pm
The Arawaks want the truth to come out
As long as DirtyHand is not found
Aruba is preserved and Babylon will pay the price (find Babylon)
*the gods know that the blame lies on babylon*
the cowboys will go back to the fort without the loot

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:30 pm
Who knows what song the elder will sing

53: Shango Says: (which song will PVDS sing to save JVDS?)
June 26th, 2005 at 9:31 pm
The shivas knew the girl
the arawaks new the girl
and the babylonians still know the girl

54: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:32 pm
His lordship is there to preserve babylon
not the elder
remember dirtyhand! [the cover isn't for PVDS-for Babylon]
[NH died in Babylon-Dirtyhand was not protecting PVDS when he assisted in disposal]

58: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 9:48 pm
The card of babylon was already played [this was PVDS' get out of jail free card]
if it sings, DirtyHand will bring down the Royal House on top of the Arawak Nation
the gods have handed down a pipe of peace, but a sacrifice will be made
**~~Some elders of the game, not just of babylon walk in older circles**~~ [maze?]
cowboys hear the singing, but the words are not understood
The gods and the babylonians are worried about the cowboys response

73: Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
DirtyHand is not a child of Babylon
He holds the real key [many keys]
The Arawaks fear his exposure
The house of babylon would tumble down on the teepees of the Arawaks [the wives won't be happy]
DirtyHand knows the cowboys will leave lootless.
He can break the alibi

Ally:

Sticking with the Dicemen rock group....what sold me was how Amy Bradley was stalked on the ship by a bandmember....who acted like he just scored a touchdown when he was released after questioning....and I think Shango's "other rollers talk..." may refer to other (V.I.P.) musicians-other bands that may have been doing some high rolling

I am starting to wonder whether the same game was played on the recent cruise ship mystery

Columbo:

ask the men who play dice and "roll"...I think u are right. They have that song abt the rock and roll...and when there is a road that is not paved (rocks) There are several connotations here..it is full of "rocks"...Dicemen....."they enter the same maze"...The dicemen have been there before..I think u are right with the Amy Bradley thing. and then when Shango references that the cowboys hear the music, but they dont understand the words..it could be what old man had stated abt playing the song backwards.

BTW--thanks for reposting shango, it makes it easier then to have to jump back and forth.

when he uses this reference I believe that he is refering to Mary Magdelene, which to me suggests a transaction

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:37 pm
The DiceMen must be questioned.
They to go to the Music and enter the same Maze
Mary who was not a virgin entered

what I don't get is the delineation of through the maze vs into the maze.....
Mary (pre transaction) rolled into the maze to play with the lions....

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:41 pm
Mary ROLLED through the Maze
There is more than one house of music
the Lamb is a Scapegoat

Shango Says:
June 27th, 2005 at 10:42 pm
The Lamb returned to the fold [afraid to walk THROUGH the maze]
Mary Rolled
And the lions played

so let's say we are in the V.I.P. ....could part of the maze be high rolling, then calling in a marker (which is paid in the house out back)

as far as not understanding words....the Sumerian language is not related to any other known language....remember Croes testimony tossed from the table and 'crushed under Sumerian feet' (I don't subscribe to playing the song backwards-I do think that like most bands-they may have been inspired to write of their exploits)

Deb--I have to find it, it was on SM give me a little bit. It was taken by someone at C and C's (tourist) and you can see Natalee in the backroung. She is really far in the back, but it is positively her as u can see her clothes were the same to the previous pictures that were taken of her from that night. The tourist also had a pic that shows Joran...and another one that others say shows a reflection of Natalee on the bar (although i have seen the pic, and i am unable to say that I can recognize, in this one, that it is her)...

stefani--where did u go, my friend.

Others, i will be back later...i have to attend to my boyfriend....He is getting restless

Before, i go..Shango has said that Yliana was on to something when she had referred to the country homes having several rooms comparable to a maze....

Ally:

thought your earlier link to a pdf was best fit for the maze

Must correct myself....if we assume that the premise in 514-515 is true, but that *Shango never did say that NH was dead*....then the Dirtyhand resulted from this person's role, not in a disposal of a body, but what?

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:33 pm
Why did the girl owe money?

Shango Says:
June 26th, 2005 at 10:30 pm
You always find forbidden desires in the small houses of Babylon (illegal)
the girl knew this
Find DirtyHand! He too walked in this house of Babylon.
But not to satiate desire. (work)

RE: MICHELLE SAYS SO BLOG:

http://arubanboycott.blogspot.com/

Tim Miller calling in daily from Aruba to provide search updates

Tim Miller has arrived safely in Aruba with Jim Whitaker. They are in the process of laying the ground work to prepare for an extensive search in the water. Tim has spoken with Chief Dompig and anticipates cooperation all the way around to conduct a search in the waters of Aruba.

Tim Miller and the Equuasearch Team is in Aruba and No MORE MONKEY business. They know where and what they are looking for, so please pray that we can bring Natalee home and have her put to rest so her family can have closure on that aspect. If she is found and the Aruba police and government don't follow up on this case, then a BOYCOTT WILL REMAIN.

There is ample evidence, which has NOT been released to the media, in which Natalee's disappearance has been covered up by numerous government individuals. And why? In order to protect little baby Joran Van der Sloot. Daddy Van der Sloot has ample ammo for many bribes...bribes against sexual deviant government officials who can't have their 'on the down low' cover blown.

Reliable anonymous sources currently working on the case claim also point out that the act of disposing Natalee's body points to Koen, Joran and Deepak. This source says that Joran, Koen and Deepak were seen speeding off in Koen's father's boat during the early hours of May 31, 2005. Just hours before Beth arrived at the Van der Sloot house to find Joran.

If Koen has been "cleared" with his so-called "alibi...then let's bring out the real evidence. Let's produce those documents (a plane ticket), affidavits of the alleged '78' witnesses, and bring forth the pictures mentioned with a time stamped to prove it. What time did his plane leave if he did indeed leave the country? Give us some of that information!

Until actual proof is shown otherwise, Koen is a suspect in the eyes of this blogger, blogger members, and many of those that are in support of the boycott. However, we all know that none of us are privy to any of this needed information. And why? Because the Aruban government is shady and secretive.

Leave NO STONE unturned !

I think this may be of some relevance:

Open from midday until the early hours.....The Wyndham's Casablanca has a bar and live music. Big-buck gamblers gather in the back and the Cabaret Royal Showroom features a review from Havana.

the excitement of your favorite traditional and classic table games, in a glamorous, glittering Arabic atmosphere.

We also feature a special high limit exclusive area, with an additional roulette table, three blackjack tables, one baccarat table and a Caribbean stud poker table.

The Casino Bar offers specialty drink favorites and live music which will keep the rhythm of the night pumping.

Columbo Could Rudy Croes in fact be Dirtyhand ???

Interesting that you bring this up....along the way several mediums have weighed in, including Miraclist-who seem to support this....especially Alison DuBois who is the inspiration of the TV show 'Medium' ...she said that PVDS had knowledge about how to dispose of a body in a way to minimize any recoverable evidence and is perhaps even more complicit in the case than just in the disposal

Alsion DuBois: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10283432/from/RL.3/

Add to the list: Miraclist & Sylvia Browne among others

It's not much, but it seems to be where everything's headed

Is Rudy the one who was at PVDS' home when it was 'searched?'

I think that was Kock. Ben King. But not positive.

Oh, and Charles Croes was there with Beth Twittie.

Columbo
I believe the medium is correct.
DEEP in the sea.
Fileted, probably like a
large fish.

What creeps !

Dirty hand MUST be realized to make the system fall like a house of cards. The fires are getting hot in Aruba.

Today and tomorrow all 50 LE are researching near the lighthouse for evidence one of those culprits PLANTED there themselves. IDIOTS ! Absolute and complete idiots on Aruba.

Atty. Van der Sloot, Esq?????

you bet columbo ! someone who understands the activity needs to defend those maffia dudes !

if pappa sloot is qualified to be an atty., then i could apply for us president or something...

Tomorrow (Thursday, 1/19/2006) on Dr. Phil...a new show with Natalee Holloway's mom.

I think every time she mentions that diary many Rolaids roll off the shelves in Aruba....gonna watch

those stupid IDIOTS in Aruba are probably using Rolaids in Barbados. Rem. they went there yesterday and postponed the search to try and find here in Barbados, per a tip. They are nuts and playing games and think the US is stupid.

Barbados? interesting.....

"For years, law enforcement officials in the regi