Haley Paige at AVN 2006 in Las Vegas

ok, its officially too much with the skin "actors" There are 40 year olds with better tits than that slut. Just give it a rest.

natural or unnatural, saggy, ugly tits on disgusting cum-buckets is a waste of all our time. Please end it!!!!

She's a 16 year old with 60 year old breasts.............. nice pick.................... not really............

Yup make sense..

eeeewwww

puke

Bleh whats going on with her stomach, she looks like an inflated beer barrel, or a barrel of cum i should say..

man those breast are bad for some one so young........it just doesnt make sense........
unless she was like really fat and then slimmed down and decided, im gonna get payed for fucking loads of guys now to prove my worth, or some shit like that......
but them breast.......
the mind boggles

All I'm going to say is nice outfit!! I know she's been taking a lot of flack so far! I tried to find the positive in this pic!

This pic is really disturbing. She looks SO used up and nasty...she should just OD and get it over with.

I agree that I have seen enough of these used up porn sluts for my lifetime. Enough please. Aside from that comment I have to say that this bitch has popped out a kid or two. her stomach has that used up babyfat roll look to it and her tits are all saggy. She is a nasty bitch! No more of them please...I beg you!

Looks to be on the verge of pancake tits.

Ah yes. But did she have grey teeth or brown teeth? That's the true measure of how used up the porn star is.

she's not that bad, check her out in butt stuffing action here:

http://www.nsgalleries.com/hosted1/ns/gals/haley/index.php?id=100028

so yeah, she does need to do a few sit-ups.

anyone of you assholes would love to fuck her!

you guys are crazy- this chick shouldn't be in porn, she should be married. she doesn't belong in porn, thats why she doesn't 'fit'.

i agree she doesn't belong in porn. she's a pretty girl and you can even tell she is "trying" to be a whore in her vids. it's not in her. she'll probably kill herself soon. lol. hope not!

Leave the girl alone!!!! You have never met her or know anything about her. All you critics are doing is picking out her physical faults like youre all fucking perfect!!!!

You have no idea how hard it must be to end up in the porn industry as a girl and what circumstances shes gone through or grown up in. I've had the privelege of good parents, nurturing and money. But guess what? theres a lot of people out there that havent so BACK THE FUCK OFF HER!!!!

Remember, people are still people (persons)

I lived with Haley Paige, real name Mariam Haily, for a year while we traveled together around Hawaii, New Zealand and Australia during 2002, and she was my absolute best friend and is a lot more than just a piece of meat...she has a really good and honest heart, sweet and loving perosnally and was very open minded and adventurous. The year I spent with her was one of my best years ever spent. I cared deeply for her, but due to my typical male stupidity I broke her heart and watched her leave Brisbane AU. and disappear out of my life. I have missed her every minute.

Michael Smith

modt of you who wrote such odious comments about my breasts should find a real past time and get a fucking life, as it is, obviously my self confidence is not good to say the least, thank you for ruining my week you feeble assholes. yes, my breasts sag, do you think i dont know that?

i look at my self in the mirror everyday and hate them but refuse to get a breast job.

so you will be happy to know that i have basically quit performing and focusing on my studies, as fr the suicide coment, it does cross my mind. what do you expectwhen your dad let your uncle molest you from age 3 to 6 so he could borrow money. ive been through enough in my life and ive never treated anyone in the industry with disrespect, and i think it is fair to say i did not deserve those comments you fucking worthless cunts.

-haley

Well I think Haley Paige is superhot. Whether that is her comment above for real or not.

Maybe some of you like those horrible fake sphere breasts but I like them natural and neat. I thought Haley was new when I saw her recently in a video so I didnt realise she was in the biz and gone again already! She was every pornstars ideal though. She did everything and she looked great doing it from what Ive seen.

If that is really Haley then well done for shouting down your critics. Their comments are cruel to say the least. Shame you wont being any more stuff.

todos los malditos bastardos q se atreven a insultar a una chica tan linda como haley
no se imaginan siquiera como es ella .es linda humilde y muchas otras cosas
estoy seguro q ella es una niña q conoci en mexico(chihuahua) q se llamaba maryam irene cuando ambos teniamos 10 años no fuimos amigos pero siempre note q era muy buena persona me gustaria volver a verla algun dia .

haley paige,you're the girl more beutiful i've ever seen,i love to see you in action 'cos you're different from other girls....my only wish is to see you some day and ask for an autograph.i always see all your movies and love all of them,my wife hates you but fuck her you're better than her every time i masturbate i only think of you.
love junior

junior paige from brazil
haley that's me again...id like to ask you a picture with altograph(sure if you could)...my name is Reginaldo Junior- my adress is:rua(street) Jean Gabriel Villin,n.232,cep(postal code)04429-210,São Paulo,Brazil. i'd love you more than i ever did,thanks my baby good luck in every business.if you will not can send me sed a e-mail telling me why you couldn't....love you, thanks.
ps:forgive my english if i wrong something,i'm a poor young man and don't have how study,i learnt i little by myself...

Hi Mike! Hola Jorge! I know you both, don't I? Yes, Haley lived in Chihuahua as a child. She's a true bicultural product, and I hope she's proud of it. And I entrusted her to Mike on her year-long journey down under. Then had to pay for her to come home when she needed to escape. Thanks for taking such good care of my baby, Mike! How's it going, senorita Haley? (I'm the most important man in Haley's life, and I hope she reads this.) Except for the bad story about your uncle, in which you said your parents looked the other way, you've managed to project your true sweet nature and loving heart. It's a hell of a shock to see where you've gone, and though I don't like it, I don't condemn you for it. I do believe that you could have chosen a more wholesome outlet for your beauty and talents. I don't think it's too late to redirect your course. If you need any help or encouragement, you know where to find me.

Ever since the dawn of time us men have looked at women's bodies with selfish intentions judging breasts, ass, face, legs, hair etc. Porn is the modern-day extension of this, however it shouldn't be. Porn to alot of guys is about the fire in the performer's heart and the amount of sexual heat she creates, and Haley Paige is the best in the business.

JW

Haley, I think you are absolutly FINE. As for all the cretins and their lame ass comments...the hell with 'em. Your breasts are obviously natural and I find them a terrific turn-on. There arre a million guys (like myself) who would love nothing more than to caress them. You take care and ALWAYS do what you think is right.

fuck you all i happen to think she's a great performer

Haley,

I think you are lovely and hope you do get out of porn. Good luck.

Nil

To those of you who posted what did her mom do to raise such a slut and why does she look so used up, her bio online says she was molested by an uncle and her parents did nothing to stop it although they knew and then was consistently raped by gang members in her early pubescent years before turning to porn because it's all she probably thinks she's worth. Pretty comon histiry for pron stars and something to think about when you log online....

Haley (Mariam?),

This comment has an email attached that I actually check, unlike the previous post. I'd love to hear from you sometime if you get a chance. I looked this site up not because I was trying to see you nude, but I was interested in your story. I sent you an email to a website a short while ago explaining. Anyhow, I'm thrilled to see that you are pursuing your studies. I hope that is really from you and you are persevering in every way. It gives me hope to know you are doing that. I don't mean to stare, but I think your breasts and the rest of you are entirely beautiful. I hope to God you don't really consider suicide. I believe you are going to do such good for so many people in the future I can't wait to know about it, so I hope you would contact me with updates.

Love, J

Haley Paige passed from this life on August 21, 2007. In the company of Chico Wang. Who ya gonna blame?

Kensabe? Are you certain of this? How do you know? I can't find anything about that anwhere on the 'net...

So very certain. I'm her father. I buried her in Brentwood, California on August 30. There seems to be no word on her or Chico in the blogs. Anyone who knew her, I'd love to hear good stories of her; bad ones, too, I want to know more about her life in the last 3 years or so. Her mother and I (we're divorced) did not know she was in the business until just a few weeks before her passing. We did not judge her nor condemn her for her chosen path. We love her deeply, and she knows we do, even in death. And to set the record straight: she was NOT molested by her uncle. There was an incident with him, and it ended right there. Her parents did NOT give her up to a nasty uncle for rent. She was very young at the time. We lived in Mexico, the uncle lived in California. After the one incident, we never left her alone with him, and we seldom saw him until he died of a liver disease. My daughter is indeed as sweet and loving as many of you say she is. If you would like to see photos that I took of her funeral ceremony, go to this link: http://www.cometphotos.net/MaryamsCeremony.

kEN,
I imagine this is odd for you talking about this with a stranger. The reason I started posting on this site was that I was back into a porn addiction that I have struggled with for years. I'm ashamed and sorry to say that I came across a clip of her at 19, probably one of the first she had involvement with, and it stopped me in my tracks. Something about her face was so pure and sweet, I couldn't continue. I looked up her name and came across stories about her life. I haven't been back into the addiction since. She really brought home the fact that she and the other girls are humans and deserve so much better. I tried looking for ways to contact her and tell her this. Especially after hearing how she was trying to follow her dreams and get out of porn. I hope you aren't offended by this but I'm taking your whole story with a grain of salt. For one, that link is inactive. Not that I think I have any right as a stranger to see her funeral, but it would be nice to see her in a picture other than what I've seen. All I could find anywhere regarding her passing was that shortly before the date you give, she was involved in an assault where this 'Chico' guy was arrested. Also, I found a Myspace site that she apparently set up with her last login date at 8/21. For the most part I believe you and don't think you should have to convince me. I'm incredibly sorry for your loss. I hope it helps to know that she helped me. That time I saw her that I told you about, was right around the date you say was her death. I believe she has been an angel to me. J

Ken,

I just got that link to work. I'm very sorry I doubted you in the least and again am very sorry for your loss. I don't know what else to say.

Sadly, Haley Paige passed away last month from a drug overdose. She will surely be missed and the details of her death are as sorted as the porn world that she chose to embrace.

Kensabe - post an email address as I have some information that you might like to have concerning the death.

Thank you for your stories and well wishes. I'll get you some photos of her. Here's my private email: comet_tale@yahoo.com. Wonderul story, JJ, and no offense at all. I'm an amateur photographer, here's a site with some of my work: http://cometphotos.shutterpoint.com.

Eager to hear from you frogman.

ken

Here's a little album of photos over the past few years. I took some of them, others were taken on her travels in Australia and New Zealand.
http://www.shutterfly.com/view/pictures.jsp

I guess that link goes to my sign-in page. Sorry. I'll find another way to share it with you.

Here you go. Yep, that's Ken looking into the camera as Haley (M) glances the other way. http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=2DcOW7RixdO

she was pregnant you stupid fuck holes!!!!!

Ken,

Email sent. Call me.

HOLY CRAP, I CAN'T BELIEVE YOU USED TO LIVE IN BRISBANE!!!

You guys are funny cause about 99% of you are fat and over 40 and wish you had a girl like that beside you. You sit there and judge this poor girl from the protection of cyber anonymity...go look at yourself in the mirror...bunch of judgemental asses...but you'll sit there and jerk off to her videos...won't ya...

Well put, Woody!

Quiet no longer - Ken check your email - subject "MARYAM"

Every bio launches straight into the 300 movies but she was doing porn exclusively for internet sites thread . I can'whatAs jj said, it must seem superficial

From an interview with Scott Faynor

From an interview with Scott Faynor:

PAIGE: I got a job doing pr for a travel web site. I went to Hawaii for 2 months. Everything was great. Then we went New Zealand. The guy I was working for, who up until then was a perfect boss, all of a sudden flipped out and stole my passport, credit cards and money and told me I wasn’t allowed to leave his site. My Emails were screened.

She is a beautiful person.. With a great heart.. Let her be at rest please..

Poor deal Haley, you deserved better from life. It's a pity God didn't take a worthless scumbag like big jgke instead.

Sad, sad news.
I sincerely hope Miss Haley finds the peace in Heaven that seems to have eluded her here on earth.

I am also saddened by the news of her death. She was very young and it is tragic. From reading interviews with her on various websites, she seemed like a woman who had plans, and was not the typical airhead. She was a very beautiful woman and had so much going for her.

R.I.P.

Wow... ain't Karma great:

MORGAN HILL, Calif. — Inkyo Volt Hwang, aka Chico "Wanker" Wang, was found dead Sept. 29. Cause of death has not yet been determined, but police report his death is not considered suspicious.

Hwang was found lying half-out of his bed at an Economy Inn after themotel's manager was unable to reach him via telephone. Police said theywill release the cause of death once a toxicology report is completed............

God Bless You Haley Paige (MIH).

Many won't know your fate as your videos continue to play

But maybe your story will change the industry one day

----------------------------------------------------------------------
I will say starting with the first comment on Wednesday, February 8, 2006 at 9:46 pm we can see why the industry is basically destructive.

The people in the videos are not the issue. It is those that profit and exploit the economics of the industry. Sure actresses and "talent" are paid etc, but does that alone make exploitation acceptable even if it passes for "legal"?

People who DO NOT exploit are obviously exempt. But time and time again, it is said that everyone knows who the abusers are but there's nothing you can really do about it since well, the abused still need to earn a living or the abused and/or potential victims can avoid abusers after or maybe before a bad experience.

Where's the accountability? Where's the enforcement? Where is the equity and the justice? Where is the fairness?

I really am glad that Haley RESPONDED to the attacks and was HONEST about what she felt. That comment alone - and I hope it really was her - is the reason I even wrote this.

There's nothing available now to show the comment attributed to her and shown Friday, March 2, 2007 at 9:03 am is falsely representing Haley Paige. So look at what she said, family allegations aside (* censors text - not in original):

"modt of you who wrote such odious comments about my breasts should find a real past time and get a fu*king life, as it is, obviously my self confidence is not good to say the least, thank you for ruining my week you feeble assholes. yes, my breasts sag, do you think i dont know that?

i look at my self in the mirror everyday and hate them but refuse to get a breast job.

so you will be happy to know that i have basically quit performing and focusing on my studies, as fr the suicide coment, it does cross my mind."

(what was said here is missing)

"ive been through enough in my life and ive never treated anyone in the industry with disrespect, and i think it is fair to say i did not deserve those comments you fu*king worthless cunts.

-haley"

Regardless of what you really think about her body she is absolutely right: She didn't deserve those comments. Even if she were alive today and happily in love. She never deserved those comments: It is fair to say and it was worth typing.

Since I have really decided to either help change or dismantle what passes for erotic entertainment I have observed many who claim that people advocating for women are really "saveahoes" just seeking the company/sex of the women they support . Often, those who want to give people that label end up being someone who earns a living from what "saveahoes" and actresses (note no quotes) call exploitation.

Granted, everyone has a right to defend their livelihood, but don't call someone a "saveahoe" just so they keep quiet about what is wrong with the indusry. If something is wrong: Fix it! "Saveahoe" is so blatantly disrespectful. No woman is a "hoe" PERIOD and secondly any life in distress is worth saving. If nothing is wrong then there is no need for the "save" (rescue) is there? Obviously there is a need and namecalling is not the answer.

Are all actresses claiming rape/exploitation? Obviously not. Do they all want a clique of "saveahoes" speaking on their behalf or claiming to represent them? I highly doubt that. Does this mean there is no abuse in the industry EVER? Impossible!

What is obvious, and I'll only cite the Madison Scott incident, is that rape - as in the non porn world - is still underreported but even worse, carries more stigma because a woman is a porn actress, or active or famous in the sex industry she somehow has lost the ability to decide/know what sex is acceptable/consensual and what is not. If Madison was supposed to do a full sex scene and it went bad, one could doubt her story based on what the alleged rapist's legal rep claimed that her "sources were not checked" and her story was accepted without verification. OK.

So why is the only proof to show that she's a liar is what others claim? They all speak the truth? All the time? Even if it could mean they go to jail or become registered sex offenders? Really? We are just to believe that she is just a liar who was in that place on that day at that time? Impossible.

So is Madison Scott a:
Disgruntled employee? Maybe. Liar? Doubtful. Rape victim? Possible.

The whole thing looks like the alleged abuse was negligent if not intentional and the response was not a search for truth but rather an attempt at character assassination through legal representation.

Lawyers can claim whatever, it's their job & duty to defend/protect their client. We all deserve the truth. If she wasn't raped, we should know. If she was raped, we should know. Then, whatever we know, we should choose to act accordingly & responsibly.

R.I.P Haley Paige. :(

---> farmgirl, big jgke, Jacquelyn, Pottymouth, Melissa...

Why are people so rude?
She really didn't deserve those negative comments. :(
She was very beautiful and natural. Look how sad she was when she saw those comments.
I really miss her! :(

R.I.P. Maryam Irene Haley.

she was so sexy, i dreamed about her.

RIP Haley

I was very sad to hear that Maryam had passed. There was something very special about that girl eventhough I never met her. RIP VILA I FRID MARYAM

Poor girl, she had a rough life judging by what I've read.
Chico was only the last in a long line...

I was doing a Google on restaurants one day for my copywriting assignment course. I googled restaurants in Texas and stumbled upon an article in a blog that read "Porn Star Dies in Hotel" on the page. I wish I could say which website said this but was lost with this male ego I had, sayin to self at time and wondering " ...how hot was she?"

So needless to say, clicked on it and saw a very attractive woman in various photos of her career. Although at this point, yes I saw her body, but wondered as well why such beautiful girl could do this when she can be modeling professionally. I just saw these beautiful eyes and smile. It was all I really needed to see and thought, "What the Hell?!. What is she doing?"

Then as I began to search for her, interview in one of those sites appeared. She said she loved folk music cus her parents were sort of like "hippie parents". She was hoping to have kids one day and perform her duties as home maker, saying she was not satisfied with how many females are so into the "womens rights movement" and not willing to be at home to take care and raise their kids.

Im not trying to build an opinion on this here, understand, just gave me impression that besides struggling into this dangerous world of adult film she only knew at time, this young sweet lady had dreams of her own and I Honestly cried once I realized she was no longer with us as I kept forgetting this as I read on the interview. I knew I clicked on article within the link that read "Porn Star Dies in Hotel" , but somehow along her interview ,I had forgotten about that. Her article made me believe she was alive for a moment, that ONE single moment. I got to know a bit of the soul of this beautiful Earth Princess, who was only in need for an ear to listen and make her words to be heard.

I hope THOSE who came into this blog and chastised Mariam know that you need to set your own directives straight about judging people because you will never know when you will find yourself in the years to come as far as that goes! It doesn't matter how much money you have or how many diplomas you have! If LIFE nips you in the butt, (and it has its way of doing so for everyone from time to time!), think about THIS: How would you feel if the littlest judgement came at you? (and it will!) Judgement should never be for us to choose. You wanna spread judgement? Go Ahead but rest assured, you are not perfect yourself!

I'm sorry, just so mad at ppl for saying such bad things about this sweet young lady.

Mariam, as you pass throughout all our mortal lives, I'll only say this to you (because while so many great ppl spoke for you in here, I know you're here laughing), not at what they said but of the iceberg ahead in front of them. I hope there is newfound life you discovered for yourself in this afterlife and realize this is just the tip of the iceberg!

But this iceberg doesn't define you, I don't think. As a matter of fact I think you've moved on to a differnent kind of iceberg, where only your true grace and soul will thrive on for those willing to listen and learn about the fundamental values about being Human and knowing truth from what we all seem to know now!

Rest well, Mariam.

SIncerely

AceMaster

Does anyone have a username and password that will allow me to view the photos that Maryam's father listed as MaryamsCeremony? Apperentaly cometphotos.net is not allowing new membership. I have always been a huge fan of hers, and as depressing as it is, feel as though I have to see them. Thanks in adavance.

Thank you AceMaster for your beautiful tribute to my daughter. Even though it was a shock to learn about her career just a month or two before her passing, I feel honored and touched by the outpourings from people who knew her personally and through her career. I know she would have made it in any medium, and I can't help but be sorry she chose the adult industry, because from a number of posts from dozens of people who have written about her, it is my understanding that the industry is often destructive and dangerous. Who knows if she would have met a man like Inkyo Hwang in another lifestyle, in another part of town, in another profession. But there's little doubt that his influence decreased her quality of life, sapped her reserve of self-confidence and will power, and in some measure led to the circumstances that ended her life.

I don't blame the industry directly for my daughter's death, but I agree with many who have given the opinion that for women especially, the adult industry is demeaning and soul-destroying, and in the case of a trusting and somewhat innocent young woman, it is a potential death trap.

Maryam should not have died when she did, should not have been subjected to the cruel mistreatment by Hwang. She made choices that she was responsible for, yet she had few safety nets to keep her from falling into oblivion. I feel remorse for not rescuing my daughter. Hindsight lays our hearts out to dry, we cannot escape opportunities lost. Others have mentioned they should have done more to provide her a lifeline. In the end, we are all losers for having failed her. But winners for having known her, for having loved her, and for remembering her.

Again, I thank you all, and I will continue to visit with you and answer your questions about her, so that her sweetness will come back to us in memories smiled on and in light-filled dreams.

HaleyFan1000, this is the link to her funeral photos. If you have trouble getting to the site, let me know. http://www1.snapfish.com/share/p=126291193723554067/l=323717632/g=100125...

Most of the people at the funeral ceremony were uncles, aunts, and cousins on her mother's side. I took all the photos. I'm not in any of them. Her mother appears often in the photos. She has short brown hair and wears glasses.

Seems the link works. Correction about her mom: only in a few photos is she wearing glasses.

Thank you so much for sharing Kensabe. I don't know why but I felt like I needed to see that.

Just learned she passed away tonight. It made me sad. Thanks for sharing the pictures of her in New Zealand and her funeral. She was very beautiful. I'm not sure why people were so cruel about her picture. Rest in peace Maryam. Thanks for the entertainment.

I am a former Porn Addict. I say former, because from this day forward I am going to be free of this horrible destructive addiction. And Maryam is helping me to realize how wrong it is! (I'll explain this in a minute) As an addict, I've lost connection with how to be intimate with my girlfriend in a healthy loving way, I can't always look at a women without impure disgusting thoughts creeping into my head about them and it has actually lead to me and my girlfriend falling out of the love. She cheated on me because she found out about my addiction to porn, something I at the time didn't consider "cheating" BUT IT IS!!! IT IS WRONG!! The people on the other end of the screen are real as you can see, and live VERY SAD AND TORTURED LIVES. NONE of them are happy, and we are led to believe in the lie that the porn industry sells us, and that the girls want to be there and that they love what they are doing. THIS COULD NOT BE FURTHER FROM THE TRUTH.
Today I found "The truth about the fantasy of porn" An article written by former porn star Shelley Lubben. After I read it, I felt disgusted to my stomach with myself. How could I actually have believed in the lies I was being told all this time? Just an innocent fantasy!?!? ANYTHING BUT!!! I then went to Shelly's Website, and Myspace page, and saw a slideshow on all the actresses who have died tragically as a result of this hideous and deceptive industry, and the prostitute trade, and I saw that Haley was the newest one to die this way tragically, however the picture this time was not of Haley, it was of her coffin. That really drove it home. Then I came to this site, and felt disgusted at seeing the picture above and wished I could just see a picture of her looking decent, the way I'm sure she wished she wanted to. Because she was a person with all the same thoughts as you or I and with dreams just like you and I, but she was not as fortunate as you and I. And then I saw all the comments people were making and that made me soooooooo angry! I'm angry that people think this way about women, like they are nothing but objects, (sagging breasts, must be "perfect" like a product. Hey guess what! sagging breasts are f*ing natural! I think they are more attractive because they are natural! But I don't want to look at her that way anymore. She doesn't deserve me violating her body by looking at it without her permission.) that I believed in these lies too, but most of all that these poor girls are being abused, exploited, used up, thrown out, treated like garbage, forced to do things they can not stand, and eventually that they feel there is no other alternative then to kill themselves. HOW DARE WE!! She is beautiful, and I know that despite all the torture and destruction she had to endure, she had a beautiful soul. And she never even got the chance to find her dreams, AND IT IS COMPLETELY UNFAIR!!! Do yourselves a favor people and look up Shelley Lubben. Find out the truth about this industry. Maryam you were a beautiful person, and you deserved so much better. I am so sorry you had to leave us too early in life! But know that your death did not happen in vein! You are helping me! And I hope your story will help many others!

I wack off atleast once or twice a day to lesbian porn. Am I an addict?

That's sad news, I didn't even know she died. That picture is pretty distasteful for this subject.

I whack it pretty much every day after a lengthy internet porn downloading session. I wonder if I need to cut back?

the pic was posted like 1.5yrs earlier...

I don't think the porn industry has gotten too distasteful LOL. Have you seen the Cum Fart Cocktails series LOL? In one video about 4 guys blow a nut in one girls but hole, and then another girl drinks the spooge out of it. How the fuck do they get these girls to do this stuff? THey must pay them a lot or the girls are just stupid hoes.

rest in peace!

Just read the sad news tonight..
She was beautiful. She IS beautiful.
Strength to the parents on these times...

RIP and may u have it better wherever u roam...

I posted this in another area of Bastardly.com and felt it worthy to post here as well.

Wow! I had no idea that Bastardly.com attracted so many worthless pieces of shit. You know who you are…the ones who feel the need to be so heartless when it comes to a little girl lost. Whether you want to admit it not…Haley was a daughter, possibly a sister, a granddaughter, or an aunt…she could have been related to you and you feel the need to defile her in her death. How fucking pathetic are you?!? I wasn’t friends with Haley and I never met her…I would guess that she wouldn’t mind if you were rubbing one out to her (even if it were 3 or 4 times a day)…if you did so I would guess that she would feel that she did a job well done…but to talk shit about her in her passing…how pathetic! Those of you that feel the need to sling arrows...I would guess are 40+ years of age and 20+ pounds overwheight and don’t have a wife or girlfriend…now who is the pathetic one…you or Haley? If the shoe fits…or the shit sticks!!! :-)
The reality is that thousands (possibly millions) of people know who Haley is and out of those numbers…hundreds (possibly thousands) of people will wish Haley well and have her in their prayers…whose going to be there for you (those throwing mud at Haley) when you pass from this life to the other (not as many as Haley...I can assure you of that)?
Whatever happened to the old adage…if you don’t have anything nice to say, don’t say anything at all?
Haley, rest in peace. May your family find peace in your passing.

On this day I found out about what happened to Haley (Maryam). It is hard to believe !!

After reading some of the posts of this list , its clear to me that I wasn't the only one who could see the loving, kind-hearted personality of Haley shining through. It is so strong in her that anyone who is the least bit receptive senses it immediately upon seeing her. Its in her face.

Earlier this year (on August 10 , to be precise) I sent her a short e-mail message describing my feeling that the porn industry is no good for her. I actually offered her to come work for my company (www.racingteampaca.com) if quitting the industry would cause her financial troubles.

Little did I know then that she was involved with this porn "director" chico wang ( a man with a history of violence toward women )

I never got a reply to my message , maybe she never even got to read it !

It seems like often the kindest folks get the roughest deals in this life. It should, off course, be the assholes who get the roughest deals.

Some of the things that bother me : Her father has posted on this board that her uncle
( in another interview she says he molested her for years during her childhood , and her father "borrowed" her to him because he needed $$$ !! ) only harassed her once , and measures were taken. Yea, right. Then in another post on this board he (her father) descibes himself as "the most important man in haley's life" ??!! One post later he claims he didnt know she was working in porn until a couple of months ago. She was working in porn SINCE 2002 !!! How can you be an important, or valuable man in her life if you didnt even KNOW that ??!! Then it gets worse : on another website he stated that she was buried in Brentwood (one of the very richest areas of Los Angeles, right up there with malibu, beverly hills and bel air). You are rich-as-fuck and you let your daughter work in porn to make a living ?? In the same town you're living in ?? Now if you were a poor Welshman living in a rainy village in Scotland, without TV or internet , I could understand you didnt know about it and/or were not able to help. But you are in the same city !! Not just in the same city, in the richest part of that city !! And she is working in porn , taking heroin !
And then there is the guy on this board who claims to have travelled Australia with her for a year. On another site she talks about someone she was travelling in Australia with (this was before she got into porn) who basically went apeshit on her, stole her money and her credit cards and left her stranded there ! In his post here , this guy does admit he mistreated her, but remains vague about it. What the hell were you thinking, man ??!!

Maryam (Haley) , I ponder about what would have happened if you had read , and replied positively to my e-mail (I still have the message !!)
It is clear to me we could have created a beautiful , peaceful and joyful life for you , and by extension , for me beside you. A woman such as you I would love to be in my life.

And no, a-holes, I am not talking about her boobs or legs , I am talking about the heart that shines in the face.

Probably she would have been very reluctant to marry, because another guy in that porn industry tricked her into marriage before, just so he could get his green card. He tricked her into believing he had feelings for her so her could get that fucking card.
Really , it seems like the kindest hearts get the roughest deals in this life.

Maybe I should be her angel of vengeance now and get even with all the assholes that did things to hurt her.

Who really knows what happens when we die ? Hopefully I will meet you one day , Maryam.

Hey It's Wrong, I hear your heart felt plea to others to stop watching porn, however you need to understand that it's called Supply & Demand... their is a demand for porn and their will be people making more of it.

The women who choose to be in porn, do so at their own choice whether they are in a bad situation at the time or mixing with the wrong crowd, everyone makes a choice of the path their lives will go down. I've made a shit load of mistakes in my short life and will continue to learn from these mistakes, so I can show the way for my kids. However everyone must do this and go through this process, some unfortunately will make decisions which will lead them into porn or violence, we as people cannot stop these decisions being made. Everyone has a right.

Now if these women choose to be exploited, that's a choice which I wouldn't want my daughter to make and will do all that's humanly possible to create many other paths, so this will be a very remote option for her.

Personally I enjoy porn but I'm not blind to the fact that some women in the industry really shouldn't be there and could quite possibly end up in a bad situation and possibly leading to their early demise. My frame of mind is not to make a judgement call on any of them, I simply watch Porn for Porn and will not complicate this by thinking such thoughts. As some women would actually enjoy being with many men and they are fulfilling their needs in the industry.

So Shelley Lubben has a slideshow of all the deceased Porn stars, lets do some general thinking on this, firstly the Porn stars shown who have died in a car accident is unnecessary, as this can happen to anyone. This is just to make the overall figure look worse, lets weigh up how many porn movies are released every year and then think of all on the internet that are via site purchase, then all the women contributing their skills to the industry and over all these years, we have a very small list of unfortunate situations.

The music industry could be seen as a terrible industry to, lets have a slideshow for all the deaths related to overdoses and suicides, we can then start to realise it's more about modern society and the pressures of life than blaming everything on 1 industry.

Let's not try to sway peoples thoughts, lets all educate ourselves and what we should or shouldn't do and then go to bed with a clear mind, I'm not perfect, though I have never harmed a person and never will, I also make clear decisions about my life ahead.

Dear Nighthawk,
Get your Brentwoods straight. Maryam was buried in Brentwood, Contra Costa County. No one in her family has any money. We lived very simply in Mexico as well as a year in Canada. Our wealth was in our friends and our experiences. Are you a father? Can you not understand how close a father's relationship is with his daughter yet he's left in the dark about her private life when she becomes an adult? I'm sorry to call you out, but your ignorance is blatant. Other than that, I truly thank you for thinking of her well being and offering her a helping hand.

I just knew today what went through with Haley, I mean, Maryam. Of course, I knew her for her... Work, if I may say so.

I am about her age, and when I saw her for the first time, I asked the same question that so many people made here... Why!? She always seemed a bit out of context, she was just a sweet girl... Of course, she had a beautiful figure (nevermind the saggy or not commentaries), and it's sad to think that here beautiful looks and figure was also what led her to where she is now, unfortunatelly...

I quite don't remember why I ended up in this page... When surfing the net I saw that Maryam died, I started surfing all these pages, over and over... And a dosis of reallity just slammed right in my face. I saw the tribute on Youtube, I saw her father's pictures (by the way, I liked a lot your job, from an amateur photographer to another, although you are infinite times greater than me, of course...), I saw...

The life of a young girl crossing right between my eyes. And I felt sad, and began to think that in a way, I also contributed to the death of this girl! I'm not a heavy porn consumer, but still, I see it sometimes. And all porn consumers, heavy or not, in a macroeconomics point of view, are guilty Maryam's death, because we support this business, and what it has to give to the actors and actresses... Diseases, human misery, you name it. I cannot quite express what I am feeling today, but one thing I am sure... When I'll look again at a movie or picture (If I ever do it again...) I will not forget the soothing, human face of Maryam, and what the death of her all ment to me today.

I am really overwhelmed, filled with stange feelings, and honestly, Kensabe, although I feel your pain, I cannot quite still understand how you didn't see this earlier, I think that you at least should ask your daughter how or what was her work, what she was doing then... I'm truly sorry, but I cannot understand how a father doesn't see how things were going wrong... But maybe someday I'll will.

My last word is to you, Haley /Maryam... Sorry for the infinitesimal but important bit in what I also contributed for your death. I hope that wherever you are, you finally found peace. And If I could have made something or somehow to stop all this process, I would.
I am also happy that in the end you found the right path. In resume, I really feel sorry for everything that happened, and I'll remember you as an intelligent, charming woman.

Thors,
That was a beautiful tribute, and I thank you for your kind thoughts and heartfelt sentiments. I'd like to tell you a little about our relationship. Maryam and I were very close spiritually, and although we shared many thoughts and ideas, she usually protected me from the unsavory aspects of her life. For nearly 5 years she told me she worked for a modeling agency as an assistant, and I had no reason to disbelieve her. Not long after she got into the business I moved to Oregon, and we only saw each other 3 or 4 times. She visited me once in Oregon, I saw her a couple of times in California. On our last visit in California, in 2006, I met Chico Wang. I did not know what her business was then, though I was worried about her lifestyle with Chico. She told me that he supported her and that he made a lot of money in a legitimate business. I hoped to talk to her later about it, but that was the last time I saw her alive. There was only one moment when I might have guessed her involvement in the adult business, and that was when she told me was going to direct an adult movie. Not act in it, she said, but direct it. She offered to give me a job as a still photographer, though I didn't take her up on it. I'm sure I would have learned a lot if I had. But as far as I was concerned, her professional life was hers, and I gave her time and space to talk to me at a later time. She often said she had some things she wanted to talk about, and I was curious, but respected her time table for telling me.

It was Chico, actually, who broke the news, in a gross and disrespectful way. And he broke the news to Maryam's mother in the same tasteless way. Then Maryam wrote a little, just enough for me to look up her life online, and we started to discuss it by email. But those were the final days of her life, and before long she was dead, and I've had to piece her story together through these blogs and forums.

In a way I am deeply proud of my daughter for having achieved fame and notoriety, and though I cannot tolerate looking at her professional poses, I don't consider her less of a woman, less of a person, less of a daughter for the medium she chose to star in. In fact, hearing from dozens of people who either knew her in her professional life or who knew her through her scenes, I feel vindicated as a father and a friend that she fulfilled a purpose in her short life that most of us fail to achieve. She touched people's hearts, often in odd ways, and she planted a part of herself in those people, so that she will be remembered and admired far past the time that her earthly body will remain intact in its tomb.

Someone asked me to write a book about her, and I think there will be presentations of her life in the years to come, both in book form and perhaps in film. I have a part of the story that most of you don't have. And you have a part of it that I don't. Someday the two stories will be woven into one.

I think to know Maryam you have to know me. But you have to remember that she protected both sides from each other. She didn't really want her father to know about you, and by the same token, she hid her father from her friends and fans. Hence, you got half made-up stories and vague allusions. And I would have left it at that, except you (her fans and friends) have expressed so much love and tenderness, I feel you need to know a little more. A little more about me in order to know a lot more about her.

Keep her sweetness alive my friends. If you will.

I feel ashamed of myself for watching porn... I don't think it is a case of being completely unaware of what goes on behind closed doors within the porn idustry or being naive. But rather a sense of escapism. Porn makes it all look good and fun and easy (please excuse my choice of words), whereas nothing could be further from the truth. Trying to escape my troubles and enjoy what I thought was a harmless hobby, I have indirectly helped in the demise of a person. It's all too easy to sit there and not think of the consequences, but I guess a lot of us are now realising this. It's just horrible that it has taken the passing away of someone for me to finally realise this.
I will never be able to look the same at Maryam or any other actress within the business. As for previous unthoughtful comments... beautiful, that's my thoughts on her. & that's now how I will remember her.

i just found out today haley died. rip haley .i thought you were beutiful inside and out .all anybody had to do was look at that sweet smiling face of yours to know that there was still a little girl inside that just wanted to be loved .

I did not know Haley (i am just a faraway fan), but I feel her loss greatly. That photo by the way is quite unintentionally one of the saddest I have seen.

To her father, thanks for sharing the photos and the personal details. I hope you still retain happy memories of your daughter; I think if she had lasted for a few more years, she would have outgrown the drugs and porn. She just got caught up in something bad. The tragedy of the situation is that Haley could have not foreseen the consequences, both of her death and its effect on people who knew her and people who didn't.

Here are some reflections.
http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/?p=83399645

Wow, these forums attract a lot of bastards. She was nice and I prefer natural breasts. She was also very intelligent for the business she was in and had an interesting life and worked for good causes. The world will miss her.

F* awful. This world is mad. That picture of her...
Sh*!

Kensabe,

Thank you for sharing with me (us) a part of your thoughts. Now I see more clearly why you didn't quite realise all of Maryam's parallel life. Of course, you could be a little suspicious, but it was her life, and as a grown woman she would give you more details when she was ready to do so.

Sincerely, I agree with the pride that you have in her. She is your daugher, and in a way, she touched people. A lot of them come here and give five minutes of their time to write a little message, a small tribute, you name it, and that means that she was trully different. If not more, at least she changed the way in wich many of us see the porn industry now.

I also saw Shelley Lubben's point of view on this industry, and I must say that I'm no less than shocked. For some of us it's all fun and games, until we see the other part. And now that I realized this... Well, I cannot say that the industry is stoppable, sex sells since the beginning of times, but I believe that it should be more regulated, in fields as diseases, rights,... you name it.

If people wanted to consume porn, at least they should have the guarantee that it would be produced in a sustainable way (I don't quite know if this is well written, but I guess the idea is here), and those films who would not be produced by sustainable and regulated companies would be excluded on everyone's preference... Some kind of seal of aprooval, some entity that would be created to regulate all this... And without shame, because I realise that the government closes his eyes on this subject. It's time for the Law to give true coverage of the reality, and accept that some things are here, and no matter how much you repress it, they still survive.

This is just an idea, I don't know quite well the porn world or industry, but I believe that consumers have an oppinion, and together, they are strong.

As for the Chico part, I don't understand how she was in love with this character, but how many of us can say that they haven't done a lot of stupid things when in love!? I thought so...

I deeply encourage you to write a book about Maryam. It would give people a dose of reality, at least, for them to think that many of those girls have a life story, and a loving family... If not, they are human, and no matter how low their life got, they are still worth of respect.

As for "our" part, I am able to help you, not that I know much about her (as I said, I saw her perhaps a couple of times), but I can do some research, or at least spread the message to others. She seemed truly a lovely girl, a bit shy in her own way (maybe because she was out of context...)... Let's make her memory live, to prevent that somewhere, somehow, another "Maryam" get's caught in the web of porn industry.

I am so disgusted with myself right now. I watched a video of Maryam eariler and decided to look her up on wikipedia. When I noticed there was a date for her death on the page. I am so ashamed. I always thought she was beautiful and I could never understand why she was in porn. But reading into her life its clear what a sick and fucked up industry it is. And I fed into it. Like a peice of scum. I watched an interview with Maryam and I for once saw what I always knew was true. She was a bright and ambitious person and you can see her kind spirit on her face> She seemed more human than other women in the industry and thats whats so fucked about it. THEY ARE ALL HUMAN BEINGS. Being exploted for profit. I think I have come to new realization today. And how dare you worthless peices of shit make such horrible comments about this young girl? She is being seen in her rawest form. I would like to strip you all naked and have people judge you. And thats the reality of it. she is veiwd as an object. NOT AS A HUMAN BEING. I had tears in my eyes from hearing about her death. And also from shame that I have fed into this horrible machine. That takes young promsing girls and turns them into objects. No matter the circumstance around her death it is realted to the industry. I wish she could have had another chance. May you rest in peace Maryam.

In a way her death will shine light on what a hedious industry this is.

I found out about Maryam's fate just today.

The more I research the deeper my sadness. There was such an innocence about her face. To her dad, though many months late, my condolences. To the dirt bags at the top of this thread, hope you are enjoying life, because she isn't.

May she rest in peace.

Dear Ken,

I found out only a couple of days ago of Maryam’s (Haley’s) death. I have been a consumer of porn, which makes me sick to my stomach right now. I did see some of Maryam’s work and I must be honest, it never seemed right that she was in porn. I’m sure someone might ask, “Who does seem right”? All I can say is, definitely not Maryam. Her innocence was palpable. Maybe that’s why I could never really watch her, I guess it took me out of the fantasy. But I did know who she was and when I found out she died it took my breath away. I have been so depressed the last 4 days. I have never followed porn stars careers or their personal life or tried to see them at conventions. It was fantasy for me. Unfortunately, fantasy has a strange way of colliding with reality. I have felt compelled the last few days, as it seems like a lot of her “fans” have done from reading message boards, to find out more about her life and death. I’m glad I did. I don’t think I can ever watch porn again. I haven’t been able to get those pictures you posted of your daughter out of my head. I have probably looked at them over a hundred times in 4 days. And all I keep thinking is “how did this beautiful, sweet girl wind up in porn?” Then I realize my own culpability as a consumer. From what I can piece together from the internet it seems Maryam had left porn just before her death. Its so sad that she wasn’t able to enjoy her new path before her death. I’m glad that she only directed one adult video because there is a difference between being exploited and being the exploiter. I’m not going to pretend that I knew her, but from everything I have seen and read about Maryam, I don’t think she had it in her to be the exploiter. From reading the message boards its seems like Maryam was as sweet as she looked in your pictures. I have not read one bad word about her. Maybe that’s why she was with that scum bag chico, maybe she was trying to “save” him. Anyway, it just seems like we all lost something special with Maryams passing. I am so sorry for you and your family. It really breaks my heart. Maybe something good can come from her death. I talked about this with friends. If we as a society don’t allow adults to drink until they are 21 why do we as a society allow 18 year olds to film sex scenes. They shouldn’t be allowed to make these kinds of life changing decisions at 18. Maybe if that had been a law Maryam would have found her path sooner and never wound up in porn, but I feel like a hypocrite for saying anything since I have watched it. RIP Maryam

Robert W.

I have been looking all over the place for the final autopsy report, can't find it anywhere. Does anyone know what was the final cause of death??? Did chico kill Maryam or was it an OD? RIP Maryam.

Kensabe
I am going to be honest with you, I think a lot of what you have had to say here is bullshit. From what I have been able to gather from the internet and Haley Paige interviews all the men in this young ladies life failed her miserably, most importantly her father. First, her family, and more importantly her father glossed over some very inappropriate behavior by her uncle. You state: “After the one incident, we never left her alone with him, and we seldom saw him until he died of a liver disease”. What? That wasn’t good enough. I'm sure on those one or two occasions when she had to see him it must have made her cringe. I don’t know what the inappropriate behavior was but it was bad enough that Haley mentioned it in several interviews. That sounds like it had a large impact on her life. She needed her family to stand up and prosecute this individual, this would of allowed Maryam (the victim) to feel safe and know her family had chosen her welfare over her uncles. Second, she goes off with her fathers friend (Michael Smith) for “business” for a year to parts all over the pacific. WTF… She doesn’t hear from her father for months on end? OMG. I understand how you could not have known about her basically being kidnapped by this guy, but please, not keeping close tabs on her? That was your JOB. The poor girl felt abandoned. But thanks for paying for her flight home, that was grand of you!!! Then, when she gets back to the USA, do you give her any kind of financial safty net? NO. You state “Our wealth was in our friends and our experiences.” That doesn’t pay the rent does it??? “The only reason Maryam started doing porn was for the MONEY. It’s the reason 99% of the women do porn. Here is a quote from Haley from a “Snowman raincoat” interview on 8/18/04, “I started to get into that because I needed some extra cash” and then later on in the interview she states, “I really thought about it, and you know, I ... my parents aren’t rich by any means, you know. And I have to look out for myself…actually didn’t think that I was ready, because honestly when I first started doing the solo stuff I’d go home crying”. Wow, sounds like a girl who can’t wait to get into porn. Look I’m not saying you had to support her for the rest of her life but for the love of God, she was only 19 years old and didn’t have a hell of a lot of skill sets. And its not like she was lazy either, she did over 300 videos in her 5 years and who knows many web scenes. This was a girl who had been abused by at least two men in her young life, didn’t have any money, didn’t have any real job opportunities, and felt like she was on her own. All you had to do is provide her with a safty net until she found her path and you didn’t. I admit I don’t have kids yet, but when I do, nothing and I mean nothing will be more important than their welfare. If I have to work 3 jobs 16 hours a day they will never have to worry about putting a roof over their heads. UGHHHHHHHH
And you lied about only knowing about her porn career until only a couple of months before her death. Again she states in the Snowman’s Raincoat interview on 8/18/04 “My dad kinda knows. He doesn’t know that I’m still doing it. But he’s fine. He said he’ll love me no matter what. My mom doesn’t know…I actually mentioned it to him in kind of a subtle way. But he knew what I was getting at.” This was way before her directing job. She told you and yet you failed her again. This was her attempt to get you to get her the fuck out of porn, but you didn’t. When a girl trys to subtly tell her father that she is doing porn it’s a desperate cry for help. Kinda like when someone trys to kill themselves. HELP ME. Is that too god damn hard to figure out. REALLY… Is it any wonder why she wound up with a piece of shit like chico wanker wang? He may have been a sadistic ass but at least he wasn’t weak like every other influential male in her life. I’m sure that is why she was attracted to him.
Despite a horrible life, according to everything I can find out about her on the “internet” she was a really sweet girl. Just think what an amazing woman Maryam I. Haley could have been with great father. I know I’m being harsh but it’s the truth. Wanker wang may have killed her but you set everything in motion.

Pats19-0. First off, congratulations on a brilliant year by your football team, i would like to see them run the table, now that my team, Tampa Bay, is out. However, I do think you are being pretty hard on Ken. You say yourself that your information is gathered from the internet, well so is mine and while i agree with you she had a rough time growing up, i don't think you can heap all the blame on her father. I don't think you can say Ken is lying about anything, you are assuming he knew about her career based on her statement where she just assumed that he knew. From everything i can gather, her parents only found out for sure when the news was broken to them by Wang "in a very disrespectful manner" after she ran away from him in June or July of 07.

I have seen children rebel from the most loving and supportive parents you could find so i wouldn't read into everything. I think that one of the main problems was that Maryam was a bad choice of boyfriends/husbands. If you read the transcript of her affidavit about her marriage to Csaba, she was in love with him and you can read how he used her. I think one of the saddest parts is that she made plans for Christmas day 2005, with a tree and presents etc for her husband who didn't even show up and she never even heard from him until a week into January. That's three huge events in one week this poor girl was deprived of, Christmas, her birthday and New Years. Csaba wasn't much of an upgrade either "In addition, my last boyfriend prior to Csaba was verbally, emotionally, mentally and physically abusive, only compounding my psychological distress."

Unfortunately, Maryam was a victim of a culmination of demons and events and i guess my point is, i don't think you can call out her father for being the only reason.

I never met Maryam but from everything i can find, away from her occupation, it sounds like we were two kindred souls. I only wish i had been given the opportunity to meet her. I hope she has found a better place and is now in peace.

My absolute heartfelt condolences to you Ken, and the entire family.

sincerely,

wytsox

Sorry about ur Bucs, wytsox. I know i was harsh but i meant every word. But, don't think that i haven't been beating myself up either. Without me and everyone else who watches porn there wouldn't be any demand and thus money in it for women. I'm complicit too. Don't think i am not aware of this. BUT STILL...

So what actualy happened to Haley and wanker - how did they die?

Hi guys. I don't mind your tearing my fatherhood to pieces, though you're taking the jigsaw puzzle parts of Maryam's life (that you think you understand) and putting them together all topsy-turvy. What you need is a chronological narrative so you can see how her life evolved. With all the different bits and pieces, taken from her interviews and other people's guesses and a few notes of mine, it's hard to see who she was and how she became Haley Paige. And how and why she died. (I haven't received any information yet on the exact cause of death, so maybe her file has been closed without the family being informed.)

For now, I'd like to rectify some of the misconceptions. The person she went to Hawaii and Australia with was not a friend of mine. Just before they left we all had dinner together. I didn't think the man was a bad character. His teenage son was on the trip with them. He had a legitimate website, well constructed (by the son), and they had an interesting itinerary. Maryam wrote to me at least every week. Some of the photos I posted after her passing were shots she sent me from Australia. I had no inkling she was having problems with the man until she called from Australia and said she wanted to come back to the U.S. At that time I had re-married, and was not broke and poor like before. I was living in San Diego, and I paid for her trip back. My wife and I offered for her to stay with us, she had an open door to our home. Shortly after she returned, she apparently got into the adult business (for the second time, maybe?) and moved to Los Angeles. She kept telling me that she was working for a modeling agency as an assistant. Her car broke down, and I bought her a used car until she could afford one of her own. She visited us in San Diego, and we saw her once in a while in L.A. A couple of years later my wife and I moved to Oregon. Maryam came up to visit in Oregon once. In all that time, I did not dream that she was a porn star. The last time we saw her was for a day in October, 2006, in the L.A. area, on our way back to Oregon from a trip to see my mother in San Diego. We met Wang. We could tell she wasn't real happy with him, but we didn't have a chance to talk in detail. And truthfully, neither my wife nor I had any idea she was in the adult business. I even asked her in Wang's presence if she were still working for that modeling agency. Both of them kind of jumped and looked funny. It's a wonder they didn't crack up and tell me right then.

The story about her uncle has also gotten twisted. She was 2 or 3 when the incident took place, and I doubt that she remembers much about it. A year or two after it happened, while her mother and she and I were living in southern Baja California, the uncle died of a liver ailment brought on by drinking. The incident never came up until just before Maryam's death, when Wang called me in Oregon and started accusing me of allowing the uncle to molest her. Maryam's voice was in the background, wailing and crying. Wang called 6 or 7 times, and I never spoke with him. I have his rantings still on the message machine. When Maryam ran away from him last summer (after she claimed he pistol-whipped her), she wrote to me and said that she was sorry for what he did, that he forced her to go along with him to harrass me. (Wang also called my sister and Maryam's mother with the same accusations.) He wrote me an email about that time and said that he would forget the story if I paid him back for the money he spent on her (he claimed she owed him $100,000). In that email he attached photos of her in porn poses, and that was how I learned about her career. That was June or July, 2007. Sure, things fell into place, and those so-called hints she had given me made sense. But until that moment, I definitely was not consciously aware of the truth.

I got the impression from Maryam before I last heard from her in July that Wang had created a lot of her back-story, that he had glommed onto the bad uncle episode and wanted to make something of it. I can honestly say that her mother and I did the right thing in not making an issue of the incident. The uncle was a good person in all other respects, and had a bad drinking problem. He was not well. Starting a fight would have alienated him and my sister, and that wasn't necessary, since we weren't going to be living near them any more.

What else? I guess I will have to write Maryam's life story after all. Except I'll need a lot of help from some of you for her last few years of life. By the way, her birthday was December 30. I notice some of you wrote on that date. She would have been 26.

I dream about her a lot. In my latest dream, a couple of weeks ago, she appeared to me as a lovely hummingbird in a gorgeous garden of radiant flowers. I kept trying to take a photo of the hummingbird, because it hovered near my head, but my dream camera wouldn't work. Later, when I told my wife about the dream, she said, "Remember at her funeral, the native American drummers who chanted a farewell song for her said that in the native American tradition the next world is known as a valley of hummingbirds and butterflies." Then I knew she had let me into her world for a brief glimpse. Imagine trying to take a camera to heaven!

I just found out about Maryam's death earlier today on Wikipedia and it has been bothering me ever since. I first saw her in magazine 3 or 4 years ago and was blown away by her beauty. As many have said the porn industry just didn't seem like the right place for her. She was pretty enough to be a Hollywood actress or model. I don't know why i'm writing this because I didn't know her but it really made me sad to know that this beautiful girl with her whole life ahead of her is no longer. Kensabe I am so sorry for your loss. But she is in a better place now. Maryam we will all miss you. I hope you have found peace.

Ken,

You have my utmost respect. I know we don't know each other and that we've never met...but from the way you've handled yourself here I get the feeling that you are very Zen (something that more of us need to be in tune to).

I agree completely with Ken...so many of these "bios" are fabricated "back stories". Hell, even Nikki Sixx admitted that some of the prose in "The Dirt" was the imagination of a "ghost writer". This type of thing goes on all of the time. Hell, Prince and Appollonia were supposed to be dating even though she was actually married in "real" life. The Beatles kept the fact that John Lennon was married hidden for a few years. It goes on and on. Of course, within every lie there is a little bit of truth (that's what helps sell the lie).

This was all a very tragic ending to a beautiful young girls life. I've seen a fair number of people comment on the tragedies of porn...I agree with them to a certain extent. I think we should all be just a little bit more realistic...there is always, always, always going to be porn. There are always going to be girls who want to make fast money and there are going to be men who are willing to capatilize on that. I had a discussion about this the other day with some friends...years ago you had to be 21 to vote, yet at the same time you had a president (who you couldn't vote out of office) drafting your ass and sending you off to VietNam at the tender age of 18. Now we're still sending teenagers (18 year old boys and girls) off to be pop up targets for the Bush administration. Yet they can't even (legally) have a beer until the ripe old age of 21. In this discussion it was bantered around that maybe the age on getting involved in the adult industry should be raised to 21. I'm not saying this is the answer. I'm not saying that I have all the answers or any answers for that matter...I'm just offering up something for discussion.

The other item in "Haley's" bio that always threw me a little bit is the (I'm not quoting here...so if I have this part wrong don't go crazy) constant rape by gang members. That raised an eyebrow for me. I'm sure that something happened in this area (and I agree that rape is terrible crime) but I just wasn't sure about the constant part. It felt like it was again part of a "back story".

I wouldn't be so hard on Ken...I'm sure he and his family are being punished plenty for any wrongs that may have or not have taken place. I can't (and am sure none of us can) understand the pain and sorrow that Ken and his family is going through.

Somewhere on some board I saw where someone wrote about the idea of doing a major motion picture on the life of Maryam and cast Lacey Chabert as Maryam. Very interesting. This has been a very unfortunate tragedy. Maybe we all can learn a little something from it.

Ken, I wish well. Maryam, I wish you peace.

Ben

Thanks Ben and everyone. Yes, there are seeds of truth in most publicity stories. The gang rape story was one that involved an incident (possibly more than one) when Maryam was attending high school in the San Diego area. We had just moved back to California/Mexico from Canada, and she was in an experimental stage at the time. She claimed that she was forced to have sex by a gang member, and the school counselor recommended counseling, which we arranged for her. She was in counseling for a year or more after that, and by her senior year in high school she seemed to have matured quite a bit. The gang story was a bit nebulous. She didn't provide many details, certainly not enough to identify anyone. Looking back, it's easy to feel that we didn't do enough to bring a victimizer to justice, but she refused to identify any perpetrators. We moved her to another high school the next school year, and with her counseling and new school, she seemed to be doing better. Her adolescent wildness lasted about 2 years. Unfortunately, it coincided with a bad period between her mother and myself, and by the time she turned 18, we were separated. Though amicably, and in complete approval of Maryam herself. I went off to Arizona to get my zen head back on, and Maryam visited me there and in my later travels, including Michigan and Oklahoma. During that time I reconnected with my high school sweetheart from 35 years previous, and Maryam became a big part of our life. It was while she lived with us in Oklahoma that we went to a Woody Guthrie memorial concert which she has mentioned in her interviews. It was my idea to move back to California, and within a year or so, Maryam apparently was introduced to the adult industry. How much the high school incidents affected her, I can't really say. I do believe that in her young adult life, after age 18, she was maturing rapidly and easily. She had an independent attitude, and felt uncomfortable staying with her mom or dad for too long at a time. But she was constantly loving, sweet, tender, intelligent, joyful, soulful, talented, and gullible. She hated to be bested by anyone, especially men, but she kept falling for men who did not have her best interests at heart. She had a great relationship with my new wife, and though she always loved and respected her mother, she desperately wanted to bond with her stepmother. And my wife loved her with all her heart, too, and treated her as a branch of my own personality, with respect and affection. It was my wife who got the call from Maryam's mother on August 23, and she called me on my cell phone while I was on the road coming home from a photo shoot (I'm not a professional yet, but I was shooting a friend's wedding). She (my wife) was nearly hysterical on the phone, and I actually took the wrong highway entrance in those first wild, spirit-numbing moments when I learned I had lost Maryam. Later, at the funeral, my 3 wives met and embraced. My first, who had mothered my son and first daughter, lived near where Maryam was laid to rest, and she was very interested in attending the service. Maryam's mother wasn't sure at first about having all 3 of Ken's wives present, but it worked out beautifully. Lots of delayed bonding, brought about by the envigorating spirit of Maryam. I haven't heard of the movie idea, but I'm in communication with a documentary producer who is putting something together. I hope I get to have some input into any project about Maryam, because not many people knew her like I do. Again, thank you for your understanding and uplifting sentiments. Keep writing about her. It does me a lot of good.

Kenasu, I assume a police investigation is taking place. A straight toxicology report wouldn't take five months, surely? Good luck with the book, should you write it. There seemed like a lot of paradox in Maryam's life, and questions unresolved. How did such (by all accounts) decent girl end up where she was? Would a man like Inkyo Volt Hwang be the type to take his own life? Either way it’s a story that could wake a lot of people up. My regards to you and the rest of her family.
David

Ken,
I had an online corespondance with Maryam for over 3+ years. I would love to share some emails I saved between us. Emails describing her battle getting out of the 'haze', asperations beyond film, questions she had about life, love. She was a great person, I am happy and proud to have been a friend of hers. We never met in person, talked on the phone only once but shared alot. I am very sorry for your loss.

LGB31,
I'd love to see those emails, and than you for your generosity. Her last 3 or 4 years were quite secretive, and I wondered and worried for her, but she kept saying she would reveal all in good time. We were close even when not writing or calling every month. I know she feared for my disapproval, though she should have known I would not be hard on her. I seldom kept any secrets from her, and felt a little left out with her own secrecy. But in the last couple of months of her life, when things were falling apart with Wang, she indicated she wanted to share all with me. "What's the worst thing you've done in your life?" she asked me with a bit of glee in an email. "Don't spare any details. And after you tell me yours, I'll tell you my worst actions." I replied that I didn't have a lot of good stuff in my life, but I was ready for the sharing. Then her life and voice were snuffed.

David, good question how she got mixed up with Wang, though she never had a relationship with an appropriate man, that I know of. In her late teens she told me that she believed she was gay, and added that I should be relieved she wouldn't show up on my doorstep with a child someday. I laughed and said that it wouldn't matter, either way she would always be acceptable to me. I admit that I was just a little less relieved when she announced that she wasn't gay after all. I suppose I felt the forboding of the tragedies she would face being susceptible to men.

So what was the cause of death reported or Myriam/Haley and Chico? Surely it should have been known by know!

If it takes this long for an autopsy report it's a worry...

Kensabe,

You mentioned a possible Documentary about Maryam is in the works, is it still happening? The reason I ask is because I had the same idea too. Maryam's story needs to be told. I found out about Maryam's death in early January and i haven't been able to stop thinking about it . I have so many questions as i'm sure you do. Most of the world knows Haley Paige, thats not good enough, I want them to also know Maryam I. Haley too. If the documentary is in the works thats great, but i too hope you are intimately involved. If not i would love to speek with you more about doing one. Just let me know where to reach you.

Best wishes
Robert W.

I suspect there is nothing worrying the authorities and nothing is going to happen either on the real news front or the documentary front. Fuck me Britney Spears will probably go the same way and sell a few more seats - and thats what it takes. So where's the news or the interest? If this thread is a guide then no one cares much. The 'few' of us that actually give a shit - which includes me - would all like to know what happened but I doubt that we will. Amazingly, the non-porn pictures of Maryam reveal the same heart as the real porn ones. I'm sure that, to most of us here her appeal was that she was really natural - she looked like she enjoyed it, lived it and loved it. Millions of women love the same things - at home with people that love them. I'm sure loads of porn stars are happy and retire and look back and laugh - I know one at least. It's fucking sad. I though she was beautiful. She might have been faking it though....

Well i see everyone who posted up those horrible comments of Haley has made a fool of themself.She was a beautiful girl with a fantastic body!you should be ashamed about judging her the way you did (especcially in front of her father).

I tried emailing Haley back in July or August regarding addictions, hoping against hope I could help her out. I got out of the haze of drug abuse years ago, and as a fan, I wanted to give back something useful to someone who had given me so much joy, and maybe help her to get clean. I hope that she has found peace finally.

That's a nasty picture.

Wow - very intense and thought provoking stuff. Great posts by everyone. Hard to believe the range of emotions and responses this unfortunate episode has produced. Everything from truly tasteless commentary on sagging breasts to heartfelt sympathy to swearing off porn for life.

Sorry to jump in like this, but I always found it an interesting subject regarding the adult industry, particularly the women. That is, what is the sacrifice? what is the tradeoff that you make for: a) some fame b) the money (although it may not be lucrative in many cases.

So, this episode really caught my attention for a couple of reasons. Firstly, it seems to strike at the heart of my curiosity about adult film people in general and, secondly, regarding this girl, if I had to make a top 10 list of all time favorite actresses, I may have found a way to fit her in.

I first came across Haley in a scene with male star Mark Ashley and another girl. Without going into any detail - and this contradicts several accounts that believe she was too innocent and not "cut out" to be a starlet - I gotta say this girl liked sex. She got into it, at least the footage that I saw.

Incidently, the last time I saw Haley on the screen was not in a porn movie but on a pay-per-view special (used to steal cable on the descrambler before digital) where she was doing a topless boxing match against another X-rated star (other girl won a decision, but no real harm done). In the introductions, there was a brief bio on Haley and there was mention that she was working as a realtor. Is there any truth to this?

From the distant observer (me), she seemed to have her act together. Her death comes off as a surprise, if not a shock. I'm getting the impression that law enforcement has not released much information - not only to the public but you immediate family members have not been informed. Complicating matters is this 'Chico' guy - playing the role of Jack Ruby. I have seen some mention of methodone, in small traces. There were no "track marks" present to indicate recent Heroine use. A suggestion was made in an article that Methodone, even in small traces, can be fatal and that may have been responsible for her death.

Getting to the heart of the matter here, it would be presumptuous to assume that being in the adult industry led her to a downward spiral and was responsible for this tragedy. It could be true but it is not necessarily true. Recereational drug use is not restricted to porn stars and , by the way, how many of you folks had your act together at age 25? I can't say that I did.

The incidence of death by unnatural causes - whether it be drugs, auto accidents, suicide, etc., is actually pretty low. Probably lower than many mainstream professions. Likely there have been woman that have had a rough time of it in porn, but others have thrived on it. Juli Ashton and Jill Kelly come to mind. Regarding Jill Kelly, interestingly enough, an ex of hers offed himself in the early 90's: an active male star with several films to his credit. Fellow by the name of Cal Jammer (industry name).

The guys can have a rough time of it too. Even if they do get to hook up with Jill Kelly (in her prime, I might add).

I guess we haven't gotten to the point where sex, sexual expression, even just plain tossing-off can be enjoyed and indulged equally by both sexes without guilt resentment or prejudice. One thing, though. Breasts sag, folks. that's just the reality (or gravity) of the matter. That's a hard fact that needs to be accepted. And unless you folks are like, totally ripped, you need to pipe down.

I'm reminded of a couple of things here - an early 90's documentary of 80's star Shauna Grant. "Shattered Innocence", I believe, was the title. That with the talk about a documentary. Incidently, I do not thing that would be a good idea.

The other thing I'm reminded of is Pro Football - specifically, the guys who played in the 70's and 80's before the big contracts and whose bodies have taken a severe toll. Conrad Dobler - he of the Lite Beer commercial fame - was a borderline hall of famer. He's had several surgeries and is severely handicapped these days. He does not have the funds to support his medical needs, meanwhile the current crop of NFL players make much more than he did - even the marginal ones.

Its almost like the porn industry needs to start a fund or union for retired actors and actresses - just to keep them on their feet. Lend support, counseling, whatever is needed. There is no governing body, no Senate oversite Comittee to set the rules and keep everyone in line.

An interesting topic for a documentary would be to find as many ex-starlets as possible from the 70's and 80's (the so-called Golden Age of Porn) and do a where-are-they-now report. More recent retirees from the 90's could also be thrown in. How are they doing today? What are they doing today? What kind of impact did Porn have on their lives? It should be wide in scope - which should not be difficult. Check the adult film actress database on any one of a multitude of websites online. Lots of names. Here are (3) Jesse St James, Rachel Ryan, Blondie Bee.

I get a visceral uncomfortableness with the idea that Porn was predominately responsible for this girl's demise. It is dubious thinking which leads to censorship, overbearing law enforcement, erosion of personal freedom, and George W. Bush in your living room. A tad overdramatic, but you get the point.

Free will, it is a bitch. But it is not the only bitch.

Tragic - no question - but not the impotous to swear off pornography for life - as long as you all have some other hobbies and get out and enjoy the nice weather once in a while.

I'm OK, You're OK. She - had things run their course - may well have been just fine also.

Looks like I got in as this forum was losing steam. Anyway, for what its worth, here is an online promo for the boxing special on pay-per-view that I was aluding to above:

http://www.indemand.com/viewProduct.jsp?page_sectionId=2&prodId=46386

I think Haley is second row, far left, looking a little less pumped up than the other girls.

She was a friend of mine since high school. I love her and miss her and am very sad that there is so much about her personal life disscussed on something like this. But I don't care what strangers think about her. I was lucky to know her.

Dear KLH,
This is her father. Have I met you? Would like to talk to you about her high school years. A lot got lost during that turbulent time. Thank you for loving her and being her friend.

One of the most beautifully-spirited people I've ever had the pleasure of knowing. Maryam and I had grown to be very good friends over the course of her time in Oklahoma. Although I had only talked to her a few times upon her going back to San Diego, then LA, I remember us always giving the blow-by-blow of what we had been up to since the last time we spoke. Shock and/or awe is a gross understatement of describing what I'm feeling now. Mr. Haley (I mean Ken, as you insisted that I call u lol)--you indeed lost a gem, but gained a guardian angel.

One--DanjahOne!

I learned about the death of Maryam/Haley only three weeks ago. Very sad and depressing new... (and this is TOO an understatement).
To her family and friends, please accept my deepest sympathy. Maryam IS a beautiful woman and a person of quality.
Kensabe, if you read me I encourage you to write your book about Maryam's life. I thank you too for the photos of Maryam you posted earlier.

Well, this is my little tribute, from France.

RIP Maryam, never forgotten.

Snowing like a sonuvabitch out here in New England., so here is another way to pass the time...

Reading about this episode really bugged the shit out of me, and I've tried to break it down to the bottom line. The fundamental problem here, and other people have touched on this, is that the industry has, more and more, of late marketed crap that has a decidedly degrading view toward women. Refer to post 80 above, the 'Cumfart Cocktails' title. It gets worse than that. There is a whole series of films entitled "such and such is a Filthy Cum-Sucking Whore" That's the title of the film: some woman's name and she is a filthy cum-sucking whore. Are there any films intitled "Mark Ashley is a greasy cocksucker" or "Julian used to suck dick before he was fucking beautiful woman on film" (allegedly true, by the way). Don't remember any. Basically the deal is: porn guys are megastud superhero gods and the woman are (what did you guys say?) cum-swilling whores. There is something fundamentally wrong with that theory.

Meanwhile, we have this geriatric Max Hardcore guy whose whole deal is bondage, humiliation, and degradation to the max (hence the name, I guess). If watching some dude on social security do this stuff to a teenage girl is gonna put a puptent in your pants, well, something's wrong, man.

Regarding Ms. Haley, based on the comments here, she is either a whore or an angel. How about a little mderation. She is just like anybody posting here: some good, some bad, some weakness, some strength. But basically about finding a way - grinding out a living, paying the bills, and trying to find a little enjoyment in the process. When she couldn't find it in her line of work, maybe she turned to a little chemical enhancement. When that wasn't making it, she tried to shake the habit - perhaps a little too late.

Above all, it would be good if law enforcement could come to a difinitve conclusion about her cause of death - if it is possible at this point. I think all of us deserve that; particularly if there was some foul play involved. If only to give closure to her loved ones - and also (but less significantly) to those not as close to her.

Thank you, DanjahOne.
Did you meet Maryam in Oklahoma while she was filming the movie (her first!)? Or in her job at Radio Shack? Did she tell you about her incredible journey from San Diego to Tulsa to see me, and then her car broke down (should have broken down on the road before she even got to Tulsa!), and she ended up staying with us for about 4 months? I remember telling someone in Tulsa to call me Ken, but I can't remember the person I had the pleasure of telling that to. If we had only stayed in Tulsa....

Ken,

Feel free to email me at D1Temp@DanjahOne.com. From there, I'll give you my direct contact info, as well as another person for you to speak with.

So what was the final cause of death? :bananacream:

They should remove that picture and put a portrait or headshot. How disgraceful.

Well, seems like Daddy got out of the conversation when REAL cause of death was asked for.....

Kensabe i don't think it's your fault that the whore died. i mean, how could you know you were raising a whore. what i encourage all of us superior men to do is stop wasting time on this whore. 100 more have joined the xxx business and it's up to us to masturbate to them. this whore fulfilled her duty and did it sloppily. i still masturbate to her videos but they leave me angry and i often wish i would've punched her for not expressing more enthusiasm or screaming out what a thrill she was having. whores have no buisness expressing the emotions or characteristics of humans because they aren't human.

Whoremaster

those tits are natural but bad..gettin saggy

How classy.

what a saggy fat ass

Also, she looks like she's in pain on her calander page, but maybe that's just her "Hot" look.

Is she signing an "Anabolic" or whatever calendar? If so, that says it ALL then.... they rank up there in ickiness with JM, Extreme Associates, and Max Hardcore chicks.

she looks like she's in pain because she knows at some point her mom will think "what di i do to raise a cum cwilling whore?" or maybe the look comes from the fact she is getting in the ass in that picture, or maybe they are the same thing.

The real point is: END THE MADNESS!!!! STOP SHOWING UGLY USED UP PORN SLUTS!!! ENOUGH!!!!

Where is the love?

Haley has a stomach to feed & porn is her 9-5 job!! There's seriously no one out there who finds this chick the least bit attractive? She's better than Marquetta, right??!

The "post" above.... Disgusting! Shame on you!

Whoremaster is obviously an overweight lonely idiot who cant pick up a girl in real life and his quote came from years of sexual frustration due to 'Not getting any'! your an Idiot and my advice 'go kill yourself now' cos the world doesnt need losers like you.

Wow, this has to be the most memorable blog page I've ever stumbled on.

One question to those of you who care ... was her case ever closed? It's been about 8 months since Maryam was murdered (?), did the investigation finish?

My heart goes out to you Ken. Hope your family has found some peace.

http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_8986431?source=rss

According to this article, she overdosed. This article mentions this very web thread, so who knows if they know the truth.

Haley seemed like a wonderful person but she didn't seem to have much of a chance considering the few descriptions of her upbringing I have seen from the father Kensabe. So I am curious what was going through his head while he was raising her and what he was thinking. Why did he choose to have a child if he knew he couldn't support one or give them a good upbringing? Why did he choose to move cities every couple of years and give her a "turbulent" life (i.e. inability to keep/make lasting childhood friendships) instead of settling down, getting a 9-5 job, and working his way up to some lower middle class salary that could actually support a child. If he was poor, why was he wasting money on things like Woodie Guthrie concerts? Sounds like the guy was pretty radically present-oriented (read: selfish) and only thought about himself, not taking into consideration what it takes to be a good supportive parent. It seems like he didn't really care to stay in her life after she turned 18 - it seems like he was glad she was out of his house and no longer a "burden" on him. Why didn't he make sure she focus on school? Why didn't he make sure she went to junior college or college to learn the ways of our capitalist society instead of dooming her to a life of minimum wage salaries at Blockbuster (which likely inevitably led to her decision to enter porn)?

I had lost this site for a couple of months and just recently was directed to the new link. Thank you, moderator, for giving me that info. A response to Dude quickly, if I may. To quote you, "...she didn't seem to have much of a chance considering the few descriptions of her upbringing I have seen..." You don't have many facts about her life and her parents and the family's activities and lifestyle, so your suppositions are extremely prejudicial. Not that I blame you for raising the questions, because they are legitimate questions. Perhaps a book needs to be written about my daughter, which would include the journeys of her parents and their parents, to help satisfy the curiousity about her career (which covered only 2 or 3 years out of her life) and give some satisfaction about the sad fate of a woman with promise. I have answers for all of your questions, because I asked them of myself at the time they were relevant as well as later. Could any of those issues you brought up have impacted where she went in her adult life? Like most questions about history and lives in hindsight, they can be answered with a yes and a no at the same time. Some of your questions are silly, of course. For instance, no one wasted money on a Woody Guthrie concert--it was free. Plus, your ignorance of our lives (no fault of yours since the book hasn't been written yet) invalidates the question of "if he was poor," since I wasn't poor at the time; that incident took place when she came to visit me in Oklahoma. Indeed, I had lots of contact with her after she was 18; she visited me, resided with me, or lived nearby on and off up to age about 21, then she embarked on her own life. In the next 3 years she managed to keep the biggest secret of her life from me, even during our visits and correspondence. There was no way I could have guessed the career she selected, and it did not follow logically from her upbringing, her education, nor the lifestyle that her parents had chosen prior, during, and after her life began. When Maryam became Haley Paige, that was a decision she made voluntarily. Would she have gotten into the industry if her parents had brought her up differently? When the book comes out, you'll have a better chance to judge.

This forum is amazing, it has had quite an impact on a number of people, and I'm happy to continue my discussion here, even with the occasional insensitive post. This is what a memorial to a beloved friend and daughter should be. Thank you, Bastardly, for keeping it alive.

Poot, about all I can figure is that you aren't terribly experienced in life. It's sure easy to talk a bunch of judgemental shit, it's a different story to live it.

lol... stoned again, that supposed to be directed to Dude.

Ken, I am sorry for your loss. I know that I am not alone in saying that hearing of this will keep many of us away from porn for a long long time, if not indefinitely- it's a fantasy to watch, but someone elses hell to live through...

http://www.imeem.com/people/QihnW//music/qjgGy2HZ/sugarland_baby_girl_re...

I've seen hotter bitches in a puppy mill.

Kensabe,

I am moved by your patience and grace answering questions and enduring the horrific comments and judgements written above about you and your daughter.

I am so sorry for your loss. No matter what path she took, she was your daughter, and I'm sure your pain is unmeasurable. Wishing you the peace that only time can bring.

Kensabe,

given the circumstances I should say I am glad to see you back here. I warn you: english is not my first linguage (I am french) so my post will probably appear clumsy, awkward or even childish. I hope (if you read it) you will not find it insulting. I weigh up my words but to express in the best way my thoughts in english is beyond my capacities. That's said...

From what you wrote in your last post (20th april 2008) I understand you're working on the idea you mentioned earlier: writing a book about your daughter. I wish you good luck. Take your time and build this great tribute about Maryam. Be sure many people are waiting for your work, hoping the answer to many questions. I guess that for you the perspective is a little bit different. Could this book warm up your heart!

Of course you'll probably discuss about the career of your daughter in the Industry. From your previous comments I am quite sure you will not be too harsh about her. As his father you're surely disappointed about the way she took but don't be ashamed. That was the decision of Maryam. About her , in my humble opinion, the only real shame is her death.

I didn't know your daughter. I only knew by the net Haley Paige.But the news of her death simply devastated me. To say (in my mind) that she was a great performer doesn't lessen the utmost respect I have for her. Yes it was only one face of an another person, Maryam Haley. I hope, Kensabe, that you'll be able to bind these two faces together in the best manner for you. But you know, even in her movies Haley was able to create a very strong empathy for her. Her humanity (and fragility) went beyond the screen. I am happy to know that according you and another accounts she displayed these qualities in her real life.

Real life seemed the main target of Maryam. The Industry was only here for a time. And during her career Haley was very cautious. She keeped away from the nastiest things in this area. What she didn't want to do, she didn't do. Sadly it seems she encountered two things in the Industry: an easily access to drugs and bad persons (I think it's not worth to mention names).

From my point of view,at the end, Maryam was victim of a combination of bad luck (the bad luck she had experienced in her relationship with men during her life) and the pressure of bad people (probably an understatement) around her. I know this is a very sensitive case for you, Kensabe and I don't want to reopen wounds. But I found earlier that according certain people, it was a "logical" end. I just want to express my dissent and what I hope is right: Maryam/Haley had a great and wonderful appetite for life and she was a very resilient (and of course nice) person.

In the end Kensabe you could be proud of your daughter. She was a complex (and fascinating)person, and despite all the lame and bigoted comments a woman in her time. Enigmatic and nice person, little woman, great lady!

Kensabe,

when I wrote my precedent post, your own new post (11th may 2008)was not visible on my screen.
I find your comments very touching. I could only say that I am sorry for your pain.
It would be ridiculous and insulting for you to compare my feelings with yours.
I hope you will not find my previous comments too out of context and too "serene". Writing about your daughter is not easy for me and it took me time before I feel I have the courage for that.
I readed my previous post one more time: that's what I wanted to write, in a clumsy way perhaps. I was wrong in a field: I was too kind with the man who was with Maryam at the end of her life (I still continue to not write his name).

Be sure Kensabe, there are people, far away from you and your family who will remember your daughter with kindness.

Kerguelen,
Thank you for your sweet letters, I enjoyed them and could feel your caring and sympathy through them. Apparently you knew Maryam pretty well. If and when I write something about Maryam, either a biography or a novel, I will need input from people who knew her, like yourself. I hope you will be willing to talk about her from your perspective. You don't have to worry about hurting my feelings or insulting me with anything you say. By any chance, do you speak Spanish?

Ken,

Thank you for your depth and openness talking about this and sharing Maryam's life with us. I am glad you didn't let the crass comments discourage you from coming back to this forum.

Mark,
I'm glad I'm back, too. Crass comments don't really bother me. Well, they do, if I let them, I suppose. If I think about them and what they're saying about my daughter. But in my state of semi-denial, the comments are not about my daughter at all, but some fictional character I don't quite associate with being her. I relate to the comments about her personality and her real self, not the porn star performing acts my mind won't let me imagine. Yet intellectually I know it's her, and I sense the amazing crossover she made by just being herself in an environment that is a polar opposite from her upbringing. I know about the real Maryam, so I can relate to the feelings people have about her as a person rather than an actress.

I realize that what we're doing on this forum is quite extraordinary, talking about an adult performing artist on levels that go way beyond the subject of raw sex. We have taken the life and soul of a woman in its elemental form, examined her unjust fate in terms that transcend sensational voyeurism, and are in the process of redefining our understanding of her, our concept of her being, in the brazen expectation of discovering something valuable to cherish both in her life and in her death, and at some point, in each of our own hearts. What I find fascinating in our discussion, loose as it is a the moment, is that most of you don't know her before Haley Paige, and I don't know her since. I think we're telling each other we'd like to swap stories so we can put them together into one. OK by me.

Ken,

Thank you for opening up yourself and your life to all of us (even the rude and insensitive).

Ben

Apparently I cannot post any more comments. What have I done Wrong?

Problem solved.Sorry for the previous post, I was a little panic-stricken.

Kensabe, if you go back here I answered to you above!

Moelicious, there are comments of 2006 in the middle of 2008's comments. When I spoke of a "disgusting" post it was not directed against you but againt "whoremaster"'s post.

Oh my goodness! I know it was a long time ago but I've just found out about Haley Paige dying today. I am the person who commented directly after Haley's very own comment above, saying how lovely I thought she was.

If had thought for even a second that extending my compliments any further could have saved her from this then I would have done anything I could. The world is truely a fucked up place.

God rest your soul, beautiful

Ken,

I was up until the wee hours last night reading this thread. Simply put I am blown away by your fortitude in the face of such tragedy. I don't have much to add except to offer my condolences, and the following poem, written by Rimbaud, that somehow seems to speak to my feelings for what happened to Maryam. In case you don't understand French, I've included my favorite translation below.

Best Regards, Al

L'éternité
Elle est retrouvée.
Quoi? - L'Eternité.
C'est la mer allée
Avec le soleil.

Ame sentinelle,
Murmurons l'aveu
De la nuit si nulle
Et du jour en feu.

Des humains suffrages,
Des communs élans
Là tu te dégages
Et voles selon.

Puisque de vous seules,
Braises de satin,
Le Devoir s'exhale
Sans qu'on dise : enfin.

Là pas d'espérance,
Nul orietur.
Science avec patience,
Le supplice est sûr.

Elle est retrouvée.
Quoi ? - L'Eternité.
C'est la mer allée
Avec le soleil.

Arthur Rimbaud, Mai 1872.

Eternity

It’s found you see.
What? – Eternity.
It’s the sun, free
To run with the sea.

Soul on watch
In whispers confess
To the empty night
To the day’s excess.

From the mortal weal
From the common urge
Here you diverge
To fly as you feel.

Since from you alone
Embers of satin
Duty breathes down
With no ‘at last’ spoken.

There’s nothing of hope,
No entreaty here.
Science and patience,
Torture is real.

It’s found you see.
What? – Eternity.
It’s the sun, free
To run with the sea.

Translation by A.S.Kline

I have been a fan of chico wang since I saw down the hatch 13 he will always be one of the best porn directors of our time r.I.p. Chico wang

Ken so sorry for your loss...I hope you and your family are coping ok.
She was a beautiful girl and I find I am so touched by the whole story.
I wont say I feel bad that that Korean schmuck is dead though. I hope he suffered is all I wish. May the gift of time heal your broken hearts.

Why doesn't anyone care about chico wang what kind of world do we live in

Hi, all. I thank you for keeping her in your minds and hearts. Next month will mark the anniversary of her passing. I'm just barely coming out of the denial stage, and the pain is even worse now. I get flashes of anger, but directed mostly at myself. The anger hasn't boiled over to Wang, yet. However, I don't forgive him for tormenting my daughter during her last year or so of her life. And I don't forgive him for either being responsible for her death or for being responsible for not preventing her death. Willie, I don't want to live in the world Chico lived in. I wish my daughter hadn't.

Cornet, wonderful tribute poem. To run with the sea. Fits her perfectly. In a childhood photo I took of her, she is gleefully outrunning a wave spilling onto a beach in Mexico. I can still hear her laughter and see the spray of her little feet splashing on the shore.

Ken

Kerguelen,
Please send it through. I would like to read it again. I'm not sure if I kept a copy or not. This time I will. Those thoughts and feelings are important to go back to and reflect on. Thank you so much for keeping Maryam alive and for your wonderful support. I don't even get that from everyone in my family.

Ken

What follows is the copy of an original post written on 11th may 2008 by Ken Haley, Maryam Haley's father. I republish this post with his formal approval from a written version I saved earlier. Due to technical problems I am forced to divide the post in several parts.

All the following writing, unaltered and unabridged, belongs to Ken Haley. The possible errors are entirely mine.

Part one.

"Thank you so very much, Ida Clair. I'm still going through early levels of grieving, such as denial and suppression, and only briefly do I experience the anger that inevitably come in heavier doses. There are moments late at night when it hits me that she will not appear to me in person again, that our memories will not be laughed about in happy reunions, that new memories will not be born or even imagined. I feel somewhat dissociated from Haley Paige, the pornstar that people write about, both with dignity and crassness. I never knew Haley Paige, and Maryam Irene Haley would never do what Haley Paige did. Denial? More likely, a self-protection mechanism to suppress overwhelming grief and pain. But grief and pain slip through anyway, when I'm alone and out of earshot of my wife (Maryam's mother and I are divorced) and other people. Despite the anguish at the loss of my precious daughter and friend, I am buoyed by the words of you who have written with compassion and tenderness, and those who have been affected by her reality and her life.

I will write Maryam's story, though how soon I can't say. So meanwhile, if there are questions, like Robert's, I'll be happy to try to answer them."

Thank you, Kerguelen. It is good to revisit those words and sentiments. For a glimpse into the inspiration that Maryam bestows on me, please view a bit of my art: www.redbubble.com/people/kensabe

ken

Thank you too, Kensabe. For the continuation of your post I am experiencing technical difficulties so I can't say to you how much time it will take.

Ken Haley's post of 11th may 2008, part two.

"To kind of set the timeline straight, or as straight as I know it to be, this is what I can help you to understand. I last saw Maryam in October 2006 when my wife (her stepmother) and I visited her in L.A (we live in Oregon).I still did not know much about her professionnal life. For two or three years she had told me she worked for a modeling agency as an assistant and chaperone for the models, and then as an appointment setter. She never told me that she was a model herself."

Ken Haley's post of 11th may 2008, part three.

"A few months before I last saw her she wrote me about directing an adult movie, but she specifically said she was not an actress or performer. So when I visited her in October 2006, and met Chico, I thought she was still working for the modeling agency. She seemed a bit out of it during the visit, her eyes looked way too droopy, and she took a lot of pills during the time we were there."

Ken Haley's post of 11th may 2008, part four.

"In earlier phone conversations and emails she had told me of an addiction to oxycontin, and at the time of our visit she said she was taking prescribed methadone for the addiction. Despite her apparent drowsiness, she was quite active and alert with us, at least during the daytime. We played tennis in the complex tennis court (I took photos of her playing), and she ran and jumped and had plenty of energy. We had lunch together, including Chico. He was somewhat subdued, appeared intelligent though a bit arrogant, and he paid for the meal."

Ken Haley's post of 11th may 2008, part five.

"After we went to her place and arranged to stay the night in her appartment he disappeared. I got the impression she had to ask him for permission for us to stay and he probably wasn't happy about it. But she was cheerful and didn't let on there was a problem. As the evening wore on, she seemed to get drowsier, eventually falling asleep while eating a piece of cake. We stretched her out on the sofa and spent the night in her room. There was another bedroom in the apartment, which Maryam said was locked because somebody was keeping a dog in it. We could hear the dog, and during the night I heard someone going into the room, adjacent to the room we were sleeping in."

Ken Haley's post of 11th may 2008, part six.

"Before she fell asleep, Maryam whispered to me that her boyfriend was paying for all her living expenses, but that she didn't care for him very much, and would soon be leaving him, but couldn't right away. She said he made lots of money in a secret business, and I immediately imagined he was a drug dealer. In the morning she greeted us at the bedroom door as we were getting ready to leave. She was a lot more bright-eyed, not drowsy-looking, and very sweet with us. She hugged and kissed us goodbye and seemed very much at peace. That was the last time I saw her, except in recent dreams."

Ken Haley's post of 11th may 2008, part seven.

"In may or june of the next year, I got a call from Maryam one evening. She seemed to be chatty at first, and then suddenly asked me a question in a childish and whiny voice. "Why did you let my uncle molest me?" she asked, startling me. I knew what she was talking about. When she was about 3 years old, we (her mother, herself, and I) were spending the night at my sister's home in San Diego. We were living in Mexico, and when we visited my sister and her now-deceased husband, we would usually stay with them in their big home. My sister's husband was an alcoholic, but I always thought of him as a lovable person and a good uncle."

If my brother molests my child I'm going to wrap my hands around his throat and shut off his ability to breathe until he his no longer alive.

R.I.P. Haley Paige/Maryam

Ken Haley's post of 11th may 2008, part eight.

"As Maryam's mother and I were settling in for bed, Maryam came running into the guest bedroom and said: "My uncle touched my pee-pee!" We didn't let her go back out of our room, and after she went to sleep, my wife and I discussed in low voices what we should do. Make a fuss about it? Accuse my sister's husband of touching Maryam? Probably alienate my sister? We made the decision not to bring it up, because we felt that if he had done something inappropriate, he had done it while drunk."

To Kensabe and all possible visitors of this site,

I apologize for the confusion I created. Some posts I wrote earlier didnt't appear immediately when I tried to post them and I tought these posts were permanently lost. So I began on 7th july to try to post shorter comments: this method was more successful since they were posted immediately.
But I was wrong: previous posts suddenly pop up nearly twenty-four hours after I wrote them!
AT THIS VERY PRECISE TIME, if you want to read in a coherent way the first parts of Ken Haley's post you have only to read comments numbered 159,170 and 172.

Cookie Monster,
IF he molested her, killing him would not have un-traumatized her. Killing him would probably have ruined a few more lives along the way. As it is, he died in pain and agony with a liver disease from alcoholism. Isn't there something written in a Book that some people live by that mentions about revenge belonging to the Lord? Maybe it's just a rumor. But a good idea, I think. In fact, it happened again to the last man who molested her. Not that I asked the Lord to put a contract out on the bad men who hurt my daughter. Well, I suppose, in my heart I suppose I did. Shame on me.

Thanks again, Kerguelen.

Kensabe,

I make a pause in my writing. I don't give up the case anyway, I am just waiting a few hours (and possibly days) in order to avoid more confusion and to observe if the "rule" of the twenty-four hours of delay operates. I apologize again for recreating your original post in such a queer fashion.

Ken Haley's post of 11th may 2008, part ten.

"Just a couple of weeks after those disturbing phone calls, I got an email from Maryam that she had left Chico because he had beat her up, and she was staying at her mom's in San Diego. She said she had some informations that would put Chico behind bars for a long time, regarding a rape or a murder, and that she was going to testify against him. She apologized for the phone calls, saying that he had made her do in order to extort money. Right after that I got an email from Chico saying that Maryam had left him and he was going to have to destroy her cats. He attached half a dozen photos of Maryam in various hard-core porn positions. "See what your actions made your daughter do?" he wrote. I don't know how to describe my emotional reaction to those photos. It was like a Hitchcock movie, when lights and twistings spirals zoom in and out on the screen of the mind, and reality warps into a blur of tears and gasps of disbelief. The next day, after a sleepless night, I wrote to Maryam that I had found about her professional life, and that I did not condemn her for it. She wrote back briefly and said she had a lot to talk to me about. A few days later I got a frantic call from her mother that Maryam had left her home and was probably going back to Chico. Maryam's mother was heartbroken. She said that she knew Chico was an evil person and that Maryam was terrified of him, but that her had a hold on her."

Ken Haley's post of 11th may 2008, part eleven.

"On August 23, 2007 I got a call from my wife on my cell phone as I was returning home from photographing a friend's wedding. "Come home immediately!" she screamed. Intuitively I knew it was about Maryam. "It is Maryam?" I asked. "Yes!" "Is she dead?" I asked. "Yes!" Maryam's mother had called and my wife had taken the call. Though they hadn't met before, my wife and my ex-wife seemed to bond in grief. My wife had a good relationship with Maryam, who had often stayed with us, including several months in Oklahoma in 2001 and periodically in San Diego over the next couple of years. After Maryam moved to Los Angeles, she visited every few months, and we had several nice visits with her. Maryam's mother had called 2 days after Maryam's death, because she had immediately driven to central California when she got the news from the police on August 21. Maryam's remains were held a few days in King City or Soledad, the county seat, at the coroner's office. Her mother had gone up there and started to make funeral arrangements at her own hometown in Contra Costa County, not far away. I wish she had called me sooner, but I didn't blame her. As soon as the coroner released Maryam, we planned to have a family ceremony, which took place the following week. My wife and I drove down from Oregon, and my first wife (I have 2 children from my first marriage, both who knew Maryam, but couldn't attend the funeral) attended from where she lives nearby. All three of my wiwes came together at the funeral, and I took a lovely photo of all three, arms locked in friendship and in tender remembrance of Maryam.

Maryam's mother told me that there was an investigation about Maryam's death, and a sheriff's official did take a statement from me, but I haven't heard of any conclusion on the authorithies' part about possible murder or even suicide. The only drug that I know was found in her system was methadone, which I knew she was taking."

Ken Haley's post of 11th may 2008, part twelve.

"Chico sent me a long email right before we left for the funeral. It rambled and didn't make a lot of sense, but he seemed subdued and remorseful. I haven't shown it to anyone. He talked about driving for weeks with her after she went back to him, and about getting married in Las Vegas, and making plans for her to get off drugs and having a normal life. Some of those events were later confirmed, such as their getting married, so it's possible that this account was basically true. He said he was sorry that she died while he slept, that he didn't know she was sick during the night, and that he loved her and felt lonely without her.

When I read about his own death by suicide just a month later, I wasn't as surprised as I might be. Because something tells me she had exacted a revenge on him in some way. She might have come to him in a dream or a vision, like she has come to me (sometimes as a hummingbird, sometimes as a beautiful mature woman clothed entirely in long flowing black hair) and scared him to death. Or he may have been overwhelmed by a sense of loss, though according to accounts of his treatment of women, it's unlikely he was so sentimental about any woman that he would kill himself for losing her, unless he had done something to facilitate her death and the guilt got to him. Another possible explanation is the fear he expressed in different forums of his family finding out about his profession. Perhaps they had found out, and they had dispossessed him, and he killed himself out of humiliation.

It was a weird kind of poetic justice, but I'm happier that he's dead, though if her life would bring back his, then I'd let him live just to have her back. Even if Chico didn't have anything to do with Maryam's death, his control over her, the morbid decay of the drugs and degrading sex ans brutality he visited on her sapped her of her vitality and innocence, and made her life a form of death already. Either way, justice was served, in my opinion."

Ken Haley's post of 11th may 2008, part thirteen (and last).

"Many questions remain, lots of information I would like to compile in order to write a thorough biogaphy, or perhaps a fictionalized biopic of a sweet young woman who made a career decision that confounded all of her friends and family, that led to incredible sucess and to her untimely death in a matter of a few years. I think tonight I wrote about a chapter's worth already.

Love you all.

kensabe
Sunday, May 11th, 2008, 3:25 am"

Well, it's done.
For all the concerned persons, if you want to read this long and important post from Kensabe in a satisfactory way, you have to read the posts (provided those posts will remain here) numbered 159,170,172,176,178,179,
180 and 181.

I did this work with the courteous approval of Kensabe, as stated by post 158.

My only reason to do that is to serve the memory of Maryam Haley/Haley Paige.

Kerguelen

Kensabe please watch the quality work that wanker wang directed he was the best gonzo director of all time!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I saw a lot of myself in chico wang and because of him I am going to pursue a lifelong dream of directing porn movies he remains one of the best directors and he had these crazy camera angles haley page just got caught up and she couldn't handle it but a lot of these sluts are just that knob gobbling sluts ken haley you're a joke you condoned that pervert cause he was drunk and you justify yourself with he's dead already imagine someone putting there fingers in your ass and then saying oh he was drunk you're a joke ken haley!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

joker187,
Know what? I think YOU ARE Wanker Wang. Who died in that Morgan Hill motel if it wasn't Wanker? You sound just like him. Especially in the way he tried to extort me for $100,000 by forcing Maryam to remember things that didn't happen and then threatening to inform the authorities. If you're not Wang, then you are someone who was VERY close to him. Maybe even wrote his extortion letters for him.

Kensabe,

just an advice: don't answer the troll. Especially when it is obviously a drunk and muddled troll. As a troll evidently, the only area in which he displays some skill belongs to the field of insult.

ken haley you claim he tried to extort you but that's your word and you're a known liar on this online thread you said yourself you and your wife just kept you're mouth closed when the perverted bastard touched your sweet angel.you finally admitted that it is your fault.You're just pissed that haley trusted chico with the ugly truth of her molestation.Besides its your fault she was a porn actress half of all the porn stars in porn admit that they were molested at one time or another so don't hate wanker wang besides he was your son in law !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good advice, Kerguelen. I won't take his bait anymore. It's weird, though, that his vile is almost word for word what came out of Wang's mouth. I know that Wang had an associate who lived in the same house where I visited Maryam. He has defended Wang in other forums. Maryam's mother met him once when she went to rescue her daughter from the madman. Hunglo is his nickname. Think the troll is him?

I have not been able to take my eyes from this page sense I found it a week ago. To me this blog represents everything that is the internet,I think more then any other singular webpage every could. It is amazing to me how humane interaction is being profoundly impacted by the internet. It seems to me that this collective intelligence of relations from person to person has never been stagnant but now many people conduct much of there interactions with acquaintances and friends alike though text messages and emails. To me a telephone conversations is rarely that personal let along a typed message. This blog ,it seems to me, contains the whole stratosphere of levels people can achieve through a typed message. I guess what I am trying to get at is on one post someone is trying to attack, judge and degrade a man he or she has never met while trying there best to degrade and besmirch his daughter who had recently died. By my way of thinking this blog and in a larger sense the internet is the only thing that makes this possible. This not just because of the obvious point that the web makes it easy for people to communicate across long distances but that if Kensabe was simply an acquaintance of one of his "critics" on this blog I would think it would be impossible for him to have the gal or confidence to say such slanderous things. If I saw such a thing happen on the steet I would think the slanderer was insane.

Then there is the post by Kensabe. I my sure I don't know how you have done this, I don't think I know many if any people who could. I don't really have a judgment of you, your daughter or her backstory, at least what little is presented on this page. It is not my, nor anyones position to make a judgment on that. We are outsiders looking in from a great distance. My wonderment is on account of how you have been able to speak about yourself and your daughter in such a personal way, as well as enduring the negativity, in some cases severe negativity. I don't know how you had the courage to say what you have said and read what you have read. Perhaps in the same way the internet creates your critics it also has made it possible for you to express yourself on this page and if that is true I will welcome there expressions if it makes ones like yours possible as well.
Thanks
GK

I don't know what smokey hormel is smoking but keep your comments to yourself wierdo as for kensabe I am not chico wangs asscociate just a big fan of his great body of work you're a sick man ken haley and you're not baiting me on it just pisses me off that you justified that perverts actions oh and by the way a lot of bloggers on this thread say because of haley paige they stopped watching porn that's just a bunch of crap I watch porn to become a director one day just like the great chico wang if you want to ken haley I extend you my personal email address so we can chat maybe you can save my poor soul from watching porn since you've become the avenging angel like that cunt shelly lubben former porn actress turned saving grace for former porn starlets.I hope we can get along and remember why this thread started in the first place !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Okay...so now we have a guy fancies himself after a fictional cartoon character and uses the police code 187 for homicide in his name. Why not just call yourself Yosemite Sam 5150? Joker187, I hope you're not older than 21...because if you are and you're not already directing porn you're never going to do it. Porn today is such crap...if you haven't been able to invest in your own handicam and shoot your own stuff by now you're never going to. Go study the work of a true artist like Andrew Black if you truly want to know what directing porn is all about.

Joker (you're whole name says joke...which you are) listen, those hamburgers aren't going to cook themselves...get back to the grill and cook up my quarter pounder. If anyone on this board wanted any shit from you we would scrape it off your teeth.

Chico Wang is your hero? What are you some Korean loving butt pirate? Chico Wang is a disgrace to the entire Korean community...go and search interviews he's done and he readily admits to disgracing his family and his people. That's your fucking hero? Wow, can you aim any lower? Joker you remind me of whale shit...and that's at the bottom of the ocean.

Ken, I wouldn't waste my time engaging this fool in a verbal volleyball of wordless mind drool. It seems that there are people like SmokeyHormel and kerguelen who truly care about what you have to say and offer and it seems that they might have something to offer you as well.

Thank you, SmokeyHormel and BigDaddy for coming to my aide. If anyone reading this blog personally knew my daughter, then you also know me to some extent. She and I share a number of attitudes and values, including honesty and openness. I'm not afraid to be open with people I don't know very well, and can quickly make connections with supposed strangers. I'm not reticent about expressing my feelings and passions, and I think she was the same way. I have received much appreciated warmth and compassion from people on this blog, and I want to repay you who have given me a piece of your heart. It is a bizarre situation that brings us into each other's acquaintance, I accept that, yet it also is natural and as human as any of us can be. You are a source of solace for my aching soul, and I even welcome the sickos who insult me and my daughter, for they will by some measure be touched by your kindness and by the honor you are bestowing on the young woman who left this life too soon. Haley Paige, Maryam Haley, is not in my eyes the adult actress many of you have seen in explicit detail. She is not the innocent girl who got mixed up in something beyond her power to escape. She is my closest friend, who knew me better than anyone ever has, and who wanted to make me proud of her accomplishments. And I am proud of what she accomplished, even in the industry that took her life, but more so for the effect she had on people, and continues to have on you who read these words. Keeping her name fresh and alive, and her memory as strong as her last words on this earth, is more than enough reason to share my thoughts and heart with all of you. Simple as that. Let's keep talking about her. That includes the sickos who feel a need to insult and degrade. I can hope some of them aren't as sick as they pretend to be.

Chico wanker wang is the best gonzo director of all time jackoff besides who watches porn from the fucking ancient times ken haley now you have all these pendejos on your tip but a lot of them should read you're earlier rants about how you condone child molesters wanker loved your daughter and he tried to help her drug addicted filthy ass don't hate the player hate the game .Big daddy don't bait me you don't want any of this oh thanks for the handcam advice that's th e only educated thing I understood out of your pms rant im out like haley page in a drug induced coma till next time !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kensabe, your endurance and open-mindedness are truly impressive, to say the least...
Thanks to SmokeyHormel and BigDaddy for bringing support and sanity.

Ken haley you are the antichrist and these idiots that keep your poor precious angels memory alive were at one time or another probably watching her movies directed none other than you're son in law chico wanker wang may god have mercy on his soul you must have read that he died with pictures around him of her why hate him he tried to help her get off drugs and besides he was her best friend .haley paige is a dirty slut that I will always have the pleasure of smearing her name whenever like she used to smear jizz all around her cute face.ken haley is the biggest joke on this thread and anyone who don't like it eat a dick !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!oh yeah I recommend watching the dark knight this weekend I hear heath ledger might get an oscar nomination for his acting Long Live the sluts of porn !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Im a certified ganster bitches

I have never watched an adult video with Hailey Paige in it. I have seen porn but it is by no means a hobby of mine. I stumbled on to this thread by chance. I find your behavior odd joker, why are you reaching so desperately to defame a man and his daughter you know almost nothing about. You seem to be trying to take this whole issue as personal as possible, yet I don't see how it could be personal at all for you while it is as personal as anything could be to Mr. Haley. I am curious as to why you have such a fixation on this wanker character and why you feel so strongly about this all. If they are sincere the kind of opinions you have of Mr. Haley normally form in response to great physical or mental injury. However I don't know how he could have injured you in anyway like that. As I can see it all he has done is presented some negative opinions, which seem apt, about a smut director that you seem to be a fan of. So how is that worth hating a man?

Lets get something straight smokey the bear ken haley has been defaming chico wang for a long time and all he does is bitch and moan about him and cry his pathetic tears for his slut daughter who by the way was married to wanker so don't give me that psychological caca about what has he done to you ken haley got on this thread and all he does is self promote himself and his pathetic amateur pics .ken since your such an aficionado for camera work you should work in the industry that supposedly destroyed her.all hail the smut talking king himself chico wang.oh and by the way ill admit I did work for chico at one time........... on smearing that cunts name on other forums im out till next time biyachesssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's hard to take any of this dude's language personally. He seems to illustrate one extreme of people in the adult business who are totally without morals or humanity. I'm convinced this person is Hunglo, who worked closely with Chico Wang and who broke away from Chico for some reason just before the tragic events that surround Maryam's death. He probably knows more about the circumstances of Maryam's final days than anyone alive. Too bad he doesn't have an ounce of morality to at least give Maryam's family some sense of solace and consolation regarding her last days of life. I never met Hunglo in person, though I'm sure he knew Maryam well. I don't know why he caricatures her so grossly, in contradiction to other people in the industry who knew her personally and who have praised her for her character and personality, and even in contradiction to his hero Chico, who supposedly loved her. However, Chico did write me emails that were degrading of her, also, interspersed with assertions that he loved her and cared for her. He wrote me a day after Maryam's death saying he was overcome with grief at her passing. Both Chico and this fellow seem to be cut from the same tragic cloth. Nearly devoid of soul, they seek self-aggrandizement in the degradation and abuse of people who are much better than they.

joker187,
Let me guess, you are an adult, white, unattractive both inside but especially outside. You have never had many friends, and you have often tried too hard to appear something other than yourself, because deep down you aren't satisfied with who you are. You feel pleasure in being the online bad guy, because it makes you feel strong! But just think about what you really are. Who you are. No one with true strength would be bashing someone deceased and someone grieving. No real bad guys stay online, to make a statement on a blog as their crime. You are a nobody. I am a nobody, and you are less than that. You are a dreamer, a rejec in society, a failure in your own life. Look at how your time is spent. Pitiful as it is, making an attempt to get a rise out of a grieving father by bullying someone that is dead. Come on! Even loosers have better ways to spend their time. Why not take a look at yourself for once in your life and be honest about who you really are. You're no "gangsta" you're an unhappy, insecure, scared, boy, who lives in your own misery. Now that you've realized that you're the guy that everyone whispers about at work,(while you're mopping floors) also realize that you aren't a true man. A real man would fuck you in the ass and donkey punch you! And treat you like their ugly little bitch.

Ken haley you're an ass I will continue to slander your name and hers at any cost I will destroy her angelic image you have painted of her and any of these other people that believe I have other ulterior motives for my rage against you can suck my chorizo!I will destroy you ken haley we will call it internet assaination of your character .take a fat one up your ass like your daughter!!!!!!!!!!!

joker,
Firstly, before you attempt an online verbal lashing, you should know how to correctly spell the vocabulary you choose. It is not spelled "ulterior" nor pronounced that way. A testimate to your ignorance which shines not only through your extremely foolish web activity, but also your grammar. Which is also indicative of your mindset, that of a child. As stated before, I am a nobody. I have nothing to offer Mr. Haley or to the memory of his daughter, as much as I wished i could. What I would like to do is to spare Mr. Haley engagements with an obviously pitiful and miserable fool thats greatest daily highlight is an online harassment blog. Joker you have not succeeded in smearing Maryam or Mr. Haley's name in the least. You have however, intensified compassion by others to their deeply touching story, by your illogical statements and glorification of Wang's case. Your statments havve done exactly the opposite of what you intened. You've shown that Wanker wang was a sick, troubled, disgraceful, immoral man. You have also succeeded in showing how low your life's goals and priorities are by spending so much of your time doing this. A wannabe online bully. It is evident that your time is as worthless as your life has been. So if this gives you your pleasure to verbally bully a grieving old father behind the protection of your computer, please continue. Because it also has drawn those of us people with real lives and hearts closer to the story Mr. Haley and the late Maryam Haley, and or compassion grows with your hatred. You are also displaying who you are and what you are, by what you choosse to do with your time and spend your mind's energy engaging in. You are a extremely limited individual, so go ahead and spread your wings! These blogs are surely some of your life best work.

Mr. Haley
I have followed your late daughter's story with great empathy since the tragidy occured. I am not particularly well spoken/written, so i've been hesitant to contact you. And I did not want to patronize you with distant declarations of my sympathy for your extremely real and deep sorrow. I have a daughter, and my children are the only thing that really matter to me in this life. I am 26 and a recovered heroin addict, I guess some of the reasons this story captured my heart. I just wanted to relay the message to you that I feel compassion so very deeply towards your daughter's story, and your situation. I think to myself, " I wish I was a powerful person that had the clout to make this story be known, and have an affect on many. Or I wish I could do something, anything, to help Mr. Haley in the least bit or honor his daughter's memory. If I had known her in her highschool days, so I could inform him of missing info." But I am a nobody that like so many American families, merely scrape by a living to feed and house myself and fam. But know this, I will always remember this story, and I have gained growth from it. I think the utmost of Maryam and you, Mr. Haley.

Oh the great shelly lubben has come to get me you skank!!!!!!!!!!!! I wish you take a brown one and die blaa blaa blaa ken haley and this thread will die as others oh wait I mean his anal loving daughter LONG LIVE CHICO WANG !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!shelley lubben fuck you you're a fucking cum dribbling skank fuck you're project pink biyachhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Where are you ken haley you say I slander her name but what about chico you've been slandering his name whenever you get a chance just let it go kensabe evey other forum you have very critical of him and the industry of porn and that pisses me off. ken come out and play im waiting for one of your famous rants till next time ladies and gentlemen..........oh and by the way lube job or whatever your screen name is I am somebody .................a motherfucking gangster !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lubu,
Thank you, dear one, for your compassion and interest. Please call me Ken, or even Kensabe. I guess the wild joker has muddied up the Ken name, but that's all right. You drew his caricature perfectly, and I think that's about as dignified as his existence warrants for the time being. His foul breath has thrown a damper, though, on the stream several of the serious folk on this forum have been trying to continue regarding Maryam's life and death. The fact that you and others have found meaning in the story is an indication that your stories are just as poignant and meaningful. You are not a nobody, any more than any of us are nobodies. You affect many lives, not least your own, which is a gift of beauty that is precious beyond description. Even the ones who have left this earth remain vital and meaningful, and we are wise to call on their memory and power to sustain us when we are lonely and feel isolated. Maryam in life had a special way of reflecting the beauty in people's hearts, of easing pain and distress in those around her. Now, as a soul who can enter our thoughts and dreams, she has the same capacity to a major degree. Though most of us don't have the ability to communicate with her directly (I believe there are people who can), I feel her presence and know she is as close as my own breathing. Whatever pain and poison she was afflicted with in her last years of this life, she has emerged purified and whole in her new form. She will continue to enrich our hearts and our minds. I know she can bless us, can help ease our sorrows, and will comfort those who think of her and call her name. She must already be in your heart, affirming what you know to be true of yourself. That you are powerful, precious, and loved. As for Mr. Joker Boy, who knows what she thinks of him. Probably is a lot more forgiving of him than some of us are. Oh well. We haven't emerged in our perfect form, yet, have we?

Ken.. you are a wise I guess she did touch a lot of lives and a lot dicks near her mouth... I guess I have to recognize that fact!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!! i WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE STRONG SUGESTION THAT FOR ALL THOSE WHO WISH TO HONOR AND RESPECT THE MEMORY OF THE LATE MARYAM IRENE HALEY, TO COMPLETELY DISREGARD THE INCESSANT, HEINIOUS POSTS BY, DEGENERATE "joker197". he is attention seeking. Please do as I will, and not indulge him. At the most, I feel kinda sorry for the fool, and how much his life must suck. Ignore joker...IGNORE "THE, JOKE!", ignore the joke!, let him rant and display his character! ignore, the joke!... ignore the joke!!!!!!!! IGNORE AND DISREGARD "THE, JOKE187" POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DISREGARD---- JOKE187 - POSTS!!!!
PLEASE DISREGARD ANY POSTS BY "the, JOKE187" IGNORE AND PLEASE DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME BY READING THEM!!!!!!!!!

@*&$%@*^#*&*@(!&#&$($&^(!(#&^#$&@#*&##"!*&%@!$#&@%!*#(#$$(^@^#*&@%@#!!!!!!! i WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE STRONG SUGESTION THAT FOR ALL THOSE WHO WISH TO HONOR AND RESPECT THE MEMORY OF THE LATE MARYAM IRENE HALEY, TO COMPLETELY DISREGARD THE INCESSANT, HEINIOUS POSTS BY, DEGENERATE "joker197". he is attention seeking. Please do as I will, and not indulge him. At the most, I feel kinda sorry for the fool, and how much his life must suck. Ignore joker...IGNORE "THE, JOKE!", ignore the joke!, let him rant and display his character! ignore, the joke!... ignore the joke!!!!!!!! IGNORE AND DISREGARD "THE, JOKE187" POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DISREGARD---- JOKE187 - POSTS!!!!
PLEASE DISREGARD ANY POSTS BY "the, JOKE187" IGNORE AND PLEASE DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME BY READING THEM!!!!!!!!! DO NOT READ POSTS BY "the, joke197"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Everyday since the occurance of the tragidy of Maryam's passing, I've thought her and included her memory in my meditations. I never knew Maryam personaly, but those of us who share a lifetime of suffering,and endure with pure hearts and intentions are all brothers and sisters. The truth is, in this wicked world only a handful of us can maintain and thrive. As the Buddhist say, " we are all just people, and we all do not want to suffer". Many people with good souls are lent the most unfortunate cirumstances to endure throughout our lives. Maryam's last years, and perhaps before that, included her fair share of suffering. This story happened to a real person, a good person, that could have,and still could be your/our daughter, sister, aunt, mother.
I'm sure after the fact,many of us familiar with this story that has so taken me in, wished we had reached out to dear Maryam sooner and done our part to make an attempt. It is obviously too late for that, but we can use this story to cultivate our own compassion and mindfulness of those whom we might label negatively.
My friend Ken,
thank you for your gracious response. I heart is truely with you and Maryam every day. You are correct, none of us are perfect or even close(unless you've successfully achieved Nirvana) which is a far cry from todays humanity, myself included. But with people like you willing to speak out, it reminds me that peppered throughout this cruel world there are decent beings out there. Please continue to keep it together in the face of so much hardship. I will not patronize you by attemtping to relate with you circumstances, but I am envious of your inner strength and life wisdom.- Lubu

Kensabe come out and play !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You know what I know and eventually the truth will come to light.......so please don't ignore me it will crush my kindred soul like all the fucking your skank daughter did!!!!!!!!!!!!

!!!!!!! i WOULD LIKE TO MAKE THE STRONG SUGESTION THAT FOR ALL THOSE WHO WISH TO HONOR AND RESPECT THE MEMORY OF THE LATE MARYAM IRENE HALEY, TO COMPLETELY DISREGARD THE INCESSANT, HEINIOUS POSTS BY, DEGENERATE "joker197". he is attention seeking. Please do as I will, and not indulge him. At the most, I feel kinda sorry for the fool, and how much his life must suck. Ignore joker...IGNORE "THE, JOKE!", ignore the joke!, let him rant and display his character! ignore, the joke!... ignore the joke!!!!!!!! IGNORE AND DISREGARD "THE, JOKE187" POSTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!DISREGARD---- JOKE187 - POSTS!!!!
PLEASE DISREGARD ANY POSTS BY "the, JOKE187" IGNORE AND PLEASE DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME BY READING THEM!!!!!!!!!

Ken haley come out and play where are you taking pictures again are we .I wish we could talk more but you're never around I hope to see you on other web threads but currently im working on posting a video of haley that's come into my possesion it called ]Down the hatch]there is an interview with her on it exclaiming her love for Chico Wang.As for luub job I happen to know what im talking about when it comes to haley paige and chico wang ask ken haley he knows who I am ,but every one has to dance with the devil in the pale moonlight at one time or another so please luub job don't play with me I only want to make ken haley and me have an understanding of each other that's all so until next cretins im out like haley paige in a coma !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken haley where are you come and play your war of words with the joker you have these people behind showering you with support if any of these sheep would read since earlier your own daughter wrote how you ken haley you let her be molested for money your a very sick old man .................your very sick .im out like chico wang in a blaze of glory.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lubu,

your comments are sensitive and welcomed. The way you reacted against the current vulture and his insane "porridge" shows you're an honest man, filled with humane emotions. But please don't play the game of the madman. Simply ignore him. He is only a troll. His objective concerning this thread is clear enough and I don't think it is worth to describe it.
Keep cool on this issue and the troll's attempt will fail.

Yours, Kerguelen.

Kensabe,

I hope you will not be discouraged to come back here. I have got no clue about the identy of the troll but I doubt he is really connected with the late "mr" Wang. Except his insults against you and your daughter the "posts" of this "man" contain absolutely no valuable informations. It's just a stack of insanity and non-sense. Obviously somebody is at present missing in a lunatic asylum. I even think this person has nothing personal against you. To offense you with his garbage about Maryam Haley and to hope creating a silly controversy are his only goals. His "posts" don't teach us anything about you and your daughter, they are just a sad testimony of the mental instability of this person.
Of course I could be completely wrong and perhaps is this distinguished "gentleman" really the man you mentioned earlier. If it's the case Chico Wang's "legacy" is in bad shape.

Kensabe,
I couldn't agree with kerguelen more. Though, I don't doubt that your discipline and understanding to be greater than anything this pitiful soul could ever hope to affect. He will no longer be subject matter of conversation.For those of us who truely care about this story, please remain open and unmoved. You have displayed a noble disposition. I hope to see it continue. I feel as though I understand you.

Agreed, Kerguelen and Lubu and other like-minded friends. Then let's continue finding light in the darkness together. Where would you like our discussion to go? What can I tell you about her that will open a door for you? What can I tell you about me? What part of the story as I know it will lead us through the dark night? And how much will you reveal of yourselves so that our discovery is complete?

Kensabe,

first an information: I will be far away from an internet access from 24th to (roughly) 31th july. This doesn't means at all that I desert this thread.

This introduction explains I will not start now a long discussion.
Once again I thank you for your open-mindeness. I just hope that my posts (and those of other contributors) help you anyway.
I am a man in my thirthies, not at all familiarized with internet talks. This tool apparently remove the geographical distances, the social classes, the cultural barriers... That's said, I don't think our talks are artificial but I wonder about the strenght of the sentiments expressed here. It's not easy to answer to such emotions in the proper way.
Without being too precise Kensabe, I tell you I am living in the South of France. I am unmarried, with no children. I have got a regular job but I am currently on hollydays.

Your last message seems to be enough clear about your mood. But in the darkness there is the smile of your daughter Maryam. Nothing on earth could obliterate it.
In order to stay in the field of the good memories, without to be offending, why not starting from the photos of Maryam you posted ealier?
If you want you could give any additionnal informations like locations, years, events represented... The first photo (you with Maryam) is the finest photo of Maryam that I know.

Yours,Kerguelen.

Im sorry ken haley I didn't know that you were human I always thought of you as a monster but know I ..........you are so full of crap why don't you and the rest of your fucking twat friends tear your ass to another thread this thread was created on hate and it will end on hate .....I will continue my slanderous ways against you and any one who comes into my way I am the reaper of souls ....ken haley talk to me make me understand you I was a friend to wanker and yes I was part of his inner circle ,,,,,,but not in the porn world .....I am going to destroy this thread once and for all just remember the joker was here 187 all day putos and putas!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kensabe,
I have wanted to know for quite some time, if it's not too intrusive, what was the toxicology final report? Were there enough opiats in Maryam's body to have caused death. Are there any other theories to possible cause? What do the facts, as you know them today lead you to believe? Chico Wang is highly believed to at the very least have involvement, but do the facts dictate anything that you can see but hasn't been told. Have you been able to see closure in this tragidy yet? I applaude the courage and wisdom displayed, and what you have shared with us.
My name is Jeff and I am twenty six years old. I have been married for seven years and I have a two year old son and one year old daughter. My wife children are all that matters to me. My wife and I have been together since the we were sixteen, and I have always been loyal to her (except in fantasy). Which I feel guilty to admit but was my only association with Maryam. She was the most strikingly beautiful woman I had ever seen. I felt as though I knew her only by her face and smile because it showed so much of her.
My brothers and sister grew up under the roof and guidence of an abuser. As a teen I turned to drugs and became addicted to heroin and other opiats as an escape from my past and pain. After I cleaned up, I fought for custody and won of my younger sister against my father. Perhaps some of reasons I've been so taken with this story for such a long time.
Anyway, I dearly respect Maryam's memory and who she was as a person (or what I've learned of her). And I admire the generous and dignified manner that you handle yourself. I feel honored to have you directly share something so near and dear to your heart and life, with me and all of us who care. I hope to continue this correspondence that is so personal and very special.

Ken haley the joker lives I want to fuck your daughter and tell her WHY SO SERIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kensabe,

if I remember correctly, you wrote earlier that you saved various documents (phone messages, emails, photos...) from the time you had your dispute with "mr" Wang, and another documents this man sent to you after Maryam's death.
As offensive and painful these documents could be, I hope you still have them in your possession. It could be of some use in the future, especially if your book project take shape.

I'll leave in a few hours. See your soon!

Yours, Kerguelen.

Your sick kergulen those documents r mine ken haley knows why just ask him

Your sick kergulen those documents r mine ken haley knows why just ask him

Truely, the most impactful and memorable thread that i have encountered. Really, it is a special thing. Thanx again, Ken.

In response to Ken's post above:
I am curious too about the final results of the toxicology report, if you feel like sharing that.

I remember thinking I saw Maryam in an AA meeting in Northern CA. I had heard she had a drug problem, and wondered if we'd ever run into each other by chance. I couldn't be sure, but I remember a person named "Marion" or "Maryam" at the meeting who looked like her, and kicking myself later on for not finding out for sure if it was her, since I had the naive? idealistic? idea that I could have helped her in some way. Anyway, I'm not sure where this post is going, but that is definitely one of the doors that is left open (the final cause of death), and if it's not too painful to talk about, please shed some light on that.

You twats she overdosed on methadone cause she was a junkie ass wipes!!!!!!ken haley where are you I want to give my phone number in california so we can talk you know who I am and I just want to talk !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Us twats know that information has yet to be confirmed. I KNOW whoever this joker character is, had absolutley no affiliation with anyone in the adult industry. I knew Chico and I met Hailey on several occasions. Us "twats"not assholes pretending to to be secretly involved, were actually connected to these people; we still talk about and are affected by this. I'm glad to see average people still being touched by Maryam's life and death. Kudos to Ken Haley. Only God can judge us. Joker, get a life! You are in no way involved with Chico, Maryam, or the industry. No wait, I know! Chico introduced you to your first anal experience when he buttfucked you in prison! Am i right!!?

Also, I on more than a handful of projects with Chico and spent time with him outside work. I will not judge his heart, it's not my place. But I will let it be known of my opinion. He was always drunk and hateful. Many woman would not work for him. He was respected for his work, but not his character. ( and that says something in this business!). Chico was very uncomfortable to be around and had a reputation as a sadist. Except for that, i guess he was okay in very small doses. As for poor Hailey, God rest her soul. I never spoke more than a few words with her. She was very delightful though, and I always did want to get to know her. She gave off such a "real" vibe, one couldn't help but to immedietly feel at ease upon meeting her. Maryam, be at peace, and we all miss and think about you. God bless Maryam and her family. Chico,.... God will do with you as he see's fit.

think I know you, joker. We chatted about hip hop on XXLmag.com. You talked about the hip hop scene in Texas? What's up with all the hatin' on here? You didn't seem like a weirdo then. Sounds like you have some issues, man. Best of luck to you on that stuff. Heavy shit you dealin with...

Hi everyone. I just communicated with Maryam's mother who said she got the official autopsy report. Officially, Maryam's cause of death is UNKNOWN. There were no signs of trauma on her body and she only had trace amounts of tylenol in her system. She had no other drugs in her system. According to the report, her cause of death is a mystery. That sure doesn't bring a lot of closure to any of us, but it does answer the main question about a drug overdose.

Mark, as far as I know Maryam didn't attend AA meetings, and probably wouldn't have done so in northern California. What she needed probably during her time with Chico was good friends who could help her get out of that relationship. However, I don't blame any of her friends in or out of the industry who weren't able to save her, because it's almost impossible to get someone to change lifestyles or get out of a destructive relationship. I certainly could have done more for her myself.

Maryanne, thank you for your kind words. I loved your kick-ass comments to the joker.

Joker, I'm a little afraid to find out who you are if it's true I know you. If you can desist from the trash talk, I wouldn't mind communicating with you. I'm open-minded but not a masochist.

Love to you all.

Well ken im glad to hear from you you truly are a good man to forgive me and my disrespectful mannerisms.also what I don't understand is why is everyone fucking with me when I spill the truth this cunt maryanne doesn't know me from a pile of dogshit but being that you want to keep throwing your unforgiving comments towards my character are very welcome I applaud you but I highly doubt you know me but I bet I fucked you before slut so I will keep my identity anonymous that's why I love this thread.ken haley I've only been honest with you I hope you to hear from you and you do truly accept my olive branch.if you gotta go go with a smile!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joker you're right, I don't know you from a pile of dog shit. There is no difference!

joke187 = dog shit. lmao!

Mary anne don't fuck with me you cunt you are a worthless bitch

Mary anne don't fuck with me you cunt you are a worthless bitch

Now, children. Stop talking shit to each other. Behave. All right? You're grown children, after all. We're ALL grown children. Aren't we?

Thank you, Ken for keeping us updated with new information that would otherwise be impossible to aquire. I was very surprised to learn that there were NO substances other than trace amounts of acetaminophen found in Maryam's system. According to the story that I am familiar with, she was battling an addiction to narcotics, heroin in particular. But there were no tracks on her that would indicate injections. Smoking heroin was a possibility that wasn't ruled out. But it is NOT the method of choice for daily users, as it is a most wasteful technique. Furthermore, it is extremely hard to overdose by smoking because the user has the ability to gauge their intake as they consume one inhalation at a time. But none of that matters if she had NO opiates in her system at the time of death, because it changes the entire story. She was not an addict plummeting to the end of a downward spiral. She had either quit using or was reaching the end of a detox. There is no user in the world that has an addiction to a substance and no trace of the substance in their body, unless they have quit or are at the end of a grueling detox. The fact that their were no substances found in her system indicates she was either attempting to improve her situation or was forced to quit for whatever reason.It really makes this story much more mysterious and begs the question, "was/is this case thoroughly investigated? Is there something not being told? could there have been negligence by the authorities that has left this case unjustified?"
Ken, now that you have answered the question of the toxicology report, it has brought so many more questions to mind. How long was she missing for before she was found? Why was she missing and who was she with during that time? Where was she during that time? It seems to me, all fingers point to Chico Wang being highly involved or soley responsible for an accidental or purposeful death. But why was he not charged and taken into custody. Especially considering his prior record of violence. What evidence was missing to have prevented him from being charged. It just seems too suspicious that there are absolutely no theories to what may have happened to Maryam. I think that justice has come about through the works of karma, but still so many unanswered questions. I imagine that if "I" am left scratching my head and wondering what happened, then Maryam's family and those who were close to her must be riddled with feelings of uncertainty and are seeking closure.
The end to this captivating story is still yet to be told. Ken, please continue to honor us by sharing your thoughts and feelings, as you are the most credible source of information available.

I'll give you the information that I have so you can weigh it against credibility. Maryam's mother told me about the autopsy report, though I don't think she would have lied to me. I did see the hospital report, which also indicated no narcotics or intoxicants in her system. Maryam's mother told me that she helped prepare Maryam's body for burial just before the funeral, and there were no marks anywhere on her body. In the weeks before her death she apparently was traveling with Chico, and they were on their way back to L.A. when they stopped for a night in King City just south of San Jose. Chico told the authorities that he noticed Maryam was not breathing early in the morning and called the motel office, and then took her to the ER in the rental car they were driving. I'm not sure if she was still alive when she was admitted to the ER. The police held Chico for a few hours, maybe overnight, because the rental car they were using had been reported stolen, since the car was overdue to be turned in. The police didn't hold him very long, though. I never heard what kind of suspicions they had, but apparently there was not enough evidence to charge Chico with any crime.

Maryam had strong will power. One theory I have is that she felt she could not break away from Chico, and willed herself to die. That sounds far-fetched, but knowing her, if she wanted something bad enough she usually found a way to get it. She may not have done anything physical to provoke her own death, but her desire to live may have vanished, at least for a period of time, long enough for her to just give up. I can't think of any other explanation, not yet anyway. The mystery deepens a bit knowing that he committed suicide about a month later by overdosing on methadone. It is my understanding that Maryam was taking a methadone medication as treatment for an oxycontin addiction. Did he overdose on her pills? And why didn't she have any methadone in her system? I don't think the police or the autopsy report would have covered up an overdose on her part and quickly establish one for him. After Chico died, I don't think the police wanted to spend any more time on the case, so we probably won't find out what their investigation had turned up to that point.

I know I'll want to learn more about the circumstances of her death later, when I'm over the denial stage. That will begin an even more painful stage of grief, because I won't have the sanctuary of the fantasy that she might still be alive. When it finally hits home that she is truly gone, then I'll want to know more about her final days. I can hardly wait for the fun to begin.

Well I hope you people know im still watching you stupid comments ken haley why do you continue to ignore me the joker will get mad .maryann why do you keep poking a hornets nest I don't know why I have to be the bad guy on this thread but we will keep on I mean ill keep on with my fucked up ways .but alas I will have other people joining my funhouse of horrors they to will in time reveal themselves as my supporters of destroying any motherfucker that keeps slandering my friends name. you will not sleep nor eat when this thread gains more publicity .this NSFW thread will be my greatest achievement of all the utterly destruction of HAILEY PAGE and her ways .mary ann and any other cum dripping sluts will be wiped out.why do these people keep poking around ken haley .you know why cause the morbid fucks want to know everything.but that's human nature.CHICO WANG is still alive in the hearts of real gangsters . SIC SEMPER TYRANIS biyaches translate that quote fucking douchebags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I hope you people know im still watching you stupid comments ken haley why do you continue to ignore me the joker will get mad .maryann why do you keep poking a hornets nest I don't know why I have to be the bad guy on this thread but we will keep on I mean ill keep on with my fucked up ways .but alas I will have other people joining my funhouse of horrors they to will in time reveal themselves as my supporters of destroying any motherfucker that keeps slandering my friends name. you will not sleep nor eat when this thread gains more publicity .this NSFW thread will be my greatest achievement of all the utterly destruction of HAILEY PAGE and her ways .mary ann and any other cum dripping sluts will be wiped out.why do these people keep poking around ken haley .you know why cause the morbid fucks want to know everything.but that's human nature.CHICO WANG is still alive in the hearts of real gangsters . SIC SEMPER TYRANIS biyaches translate that quote fucking douchebags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I hope you people know im still watching you stupid comments ken haley why do you continue to ignore me the joker will get mad .maryann why do you keep poking a hornets nest I don't know why I have to be the bad guy on this thread but we will keep on I mean ill keep on with my fucked up ways .but alas I will have other people joining my funhouse of horrors they to will in time reveal themselves as my supporters of destroying any motherfucker that keeps slandering my friends name. you will not sleep nor eat when this thread gains more publicity .this NSFW thread will be my greatest achievement of all the utterly destruction of HAILEY PAGE and her ways .mary ann and any other cum dripping sluts will be wiped out.why do these people keep poking around ken haley .you know why cause the morbid fucks want to know everything.but that's human nature.CHICO WANG is still alive in the hearts of real gangsters . SIC SEMPER TYRANIS biyaches translate that quote fucking douchebags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I hope you people know im still watching you stupid comments ken haley why do you continue to ignore me the joker will get mad .maryann why do you keep poking a hornets nest I don't know why I have to be the bad guy on this thread but we will keep on I mean ill keep on with my fucked up ways .but alas I will have other people joining my funhouse of horrors they to will in time reveal themselves as my supporters of destroying any motherfucker that keeps slandering my friends name. you will not sleep nor eat when this thread gains more publicity .this NSFW thread will be my greatest achievement of all the utterly destruction of HAILEY PAGE and her ways .mary ann and any other cum dripping sluts will be wiped out.why do these people keep poking around ken haley .you know why cause the morbid fucks want to know everything.but that's human nature.CHICO WANG is still alive in the hearts of real gangsters . SIC SEMPER TYRANIS biyaches translate that quote fucking douchebags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I hope you people know im still watching you stupid comments ken haley why do you continue to ignore me the joker will get mad .maryann why do you keep poking a hornets nest I don't know why I have to be the bad guy on this thread but we will keep on I mean ill keep on with my fucked up ways .but alas I will have other people joining my funhouse of horrors they to will in time reveal themselves as my supporters of destroying any motherfucker that keeps slandering my friends name. you will not sleep nor eat when this thread gains more publicity .this NSFW thread will be my greatest achievement of all the utterly destruction of HAILEY PAGE and her ways .mary ann and any other cum dripping sluts will be wiped out.why do these people keep poking around ken haley .you know why cause the morbid fucks want to know everything.but that's human nature.CHICO WANG is still alive in the hearts of real gangsters . SIC SEMPER TYRANIS biyaches translate that quote fucking douchebags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I hope you people know im still watching your stupid comments ken haley why do you continue to ignore me the joker will get mad .maryann why do you keep poking a hornets nest I don't know why I have to be the bad guy on this thread but we will keep on I mean ill keep on with my fucked up ways .but alas I will have other people joining my funhouse of horrors they to will in time reveal themselves as my supporters of destroying any motherfucker that keeps slandering my friends name. you will not sleep nor eat when this thread gains more publicity .this NSFW thread will be my greatest achievement of all the utterly destruction of HAILEY PAGE and her ways .mary ann and any other cum dripping sluts will be wiped out.why do these people keep poking around ken haley .you know why cause the morbid fucks want to know everything.but that's human nature.CHICO WANG is still alive in the hearts of real gangsters . SIC SEMPER TYRANIS biyaches translate that quote fucking douchebags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I hope you people know im still watching your stupid comments ken haley why do you continue to ignore me the joker will get mad .maryann why do you keep poking a hornets nest I don't know why I have to be the bad guy on this thread but we will keep on I mean ill keep on with my fucked up ways .but alas I will have other people joining my funhouse of horrors they to will in time reveal themselves as my supporters of destroying any motherfucker that keeps slandering my friends name. you will not sleep nor eat when this thread gains more publicity .this NSFW thread will be my greatest achievement of all the utterly destruction of HAILEY PAGE and her ways .mary ann and any other cum dripping sluts will be wiped out.why do these people keep poking around ken haley .you know why cause the morbid fucks want to know everything.but that's human nature.CHICO WANG is still alive in the hearts of real gangsters . SIC SEMPER TYRANIS biyaches translate that quote fucking douchebags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I hope you people know im still watching your stupid comments ken haley why do you continue to ignore me the joker will get mad .maryann why do you keep poking a hornets nest I don't know why I have to be the bad guy on this thread but we will keep on I mean ill keep on with my fucked up ways .but alas I will have other people joining my funhouse of horrors they to will in time reveal themselves as my supporters of destroying any motherfucker that keeps slandering my friends name. you will not sleep nor eat when this thread gains more publicity .this NSFW thread will be my greatest achievement of all the utterly destruction of HAILEY PAGE and her ways .mary ann and any other cum dripping sluts will be wiped out.why do these people keep poking around ken haley .you know why cause the morbid fucks want to know everything.but that's human nature.CHICO WANG is still alive in the hearts of real gangsters . SIC SEMPER TYRANIS biyaches translate that quote fucking douchebags!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please forgive me Ken, but I must.... this may not go unanswered. This, dogshit187 is nothing more than a sick ass, sado masochist, fan of Chico. Ken, I can guarantee that he does not know you, Maryam, Chico or anyone. As the gentleman Lubu eluded to, he is only attention seeking. And his attemtps at psycological games are laughable.
"I WILL KEEP MY IDENTITY ANONYMOUS", says dogshit187. Oh please! give me a fucking break!!! He will keep his identity anonymous because he is nothing more than an anonymous looser that watches a lot of porn and has serious issues. Just read this entire thread from the when dogshit187 began to put his worthless two cents in. He was clearly nothing more than a wierdo Chico Wang fan. As people engaged him, he felt he was getting a rise out of folks and enjoyed it. He upped his antics and became and more offensive, because it was entertaining to him to harass Ken.
Ken, I've said it once and I'll say it again, don't worry! this asshole does not know you, or Hailey or Chico, and you do not know him; But I'm sure you arleady know that. This dickless piece of shit's only interest in this whole thing, in tormenting others for his own gratification.
Dogshit187, the reason Ken ignores you is because your're a total idiot not worth his breathe. You're like a bratty little boy throwing a tantrum, that is best ignored. "hornets nest, i'm poking at" what's that supposed to intimidate me? lmao!!!! What a DORK! Gangsta!?? LMAO!!! Wannabe wigger is more like it!! I bet you can't find a decent woman to save your life. Probably why you are so angry and hate us so much! Like jj said, "sounds like you got some heavy issues to deal with". But for now that is all I have to say about you, dogshit187. You deserve no more of my attention, even if it is bad attention; you would rather have that, than none at all. I will follow the lead of those gentlemen that seem to be true to Maryam's honor, Kergruelen, Lubu921, Kensabe, and others, and disregard your worthless comments.
Ken, my parents don't know about my profession, but reading this entire thread from top to bottom has made me consider things. I wish my parents were as open minded and free as you seem to be. But you and Maryam have helped me see what's really important. I have seriously thought about coming clean with my Dad. But idk. We'll see. I can't believe how open and honest you have been with everyone on here. Even in the face of dogshit and other less than pleasant people. I just think "wow! what a cool guy! I wish Dad was like him." If there's anything at all I can do, just let me know!-MaryAnne

I love the way you put things, MaryAnne. You got me laughing, keep it up. And thanks for giving me a reason to keep talking about Maryam. She would totally understand my input here, because I've been using the voice that I spoke with to her, completely honest and open. There was no ego between us, because there didn't have to be. I knew that in good time she would reveal all the details of her recent life, the good and the bad and the really weird. I didn't judge her and didn't put her down for making the decisions she made, and she knew she could trust me. Trust is the key word, I think. She trusted me to open my heart and mind to her, and to not close her off or make her feel rejected in the minutest way.

A few days before she died she said she wanted to tell me all about her career, and though I wasn't quite ready to hear every detail, I felt that we would share our lives on a new level. She would no longer be my angelic daughter, perhaps, but a grown woman who had done things I could not imagine a child of mine doing. And from me I guaranteed she would not feel an ounce of guilt or judgment. Can your parents handle your revelation in the same way? You must be aware that they may not, and be prepared to reveal your life's secrets wisely and according to their capacity to be shocked. I don't think many parents would be quite as composed as I tried to be. Even if yours say they want to hear it all, just be wise and tender with them. At the same time, if they have questions, answer truthfully, even if you give part of the story one day and more of the story another day. If they prove to you they can hear more, then reveal a bit more. If their words or expressions indicate a form of rejection or judgment, it could silence you for a long time, or at least damage the open trust you want to have with them. I'd love to hear from you how you break it to them. I'm happy to be your sounding board. But you do need to share it with people you love, as Maryam so desperately wanted to share it with me.

I would love to hear what you know about Maryam. Did you know her real name was Maryam? Funny, she often called herself Maryann in high school, because most Americans hadn't heard the name Maryam. It's Persian, and means Mary. I liked that name before she was born, and wanted to give the name to my own child. Good thing she was born a girl. While waiting for her to be delivered (she was born in a small hospital in Mexico), I could think of no boy names. When the nurse told me in Spanish, "It's a girl," I smiled and said to myself, "Welcome into the world, Maryam." But she was shy about her name, and usually pronounced it in a mumble, so it came out like Marion or Maryann. Some of her school friends in the U.S., after we moved from Mexico, would ask us, "What are you calling her? Isn't her name Mary Ann? What's this Maryam name?" I was a little afraid she was going to change her name later in life, and I guess she did on one level. I wonder if she let people know her real name very often.

Thanks again for the anger and the 'tude, MaryAnne. Most of all I appreciate your tenderness and spirit. I'm glad you were in Maryam's life.

My fucking rants are what they are rants against cum gobbling whores like yourself Mary Ann .The people that kept pestering me into long fucking chats left a long time ago.Do you honestly think that by fucking with the Joker you'll be able to win.Please bitch why don't you just keep sucking dick and taking it in the ass like all the other twat bitches.As for my fucking grammar I didn't know that my teacher was spell checking my homework,but answer me this one if your so fucking smart why would I be messing with Ken Haley's old ass ,just to pester him with my venom.- I think not twat ,I want to fuck with his feeble mind like Wanker did with that cum dribbling bitch Haley.Mary Ann fuck you. I would advise you to take a look in the mirror and ask yourself "Do I really want to go on with this sick twisted psychopathic sociopath.I think you just want me to fuck with you mind twatless bitch.As for MR.Ken Haley I hope you don't think this over im not even finished yet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

My fucking rants are what they are rants against cum gobbling whores like yourself Mary Ann .The people that kept pestering me into long fucking chats left a long time ago.Do you honestly think that by fucking with the Joker you'll be able to win.Please bitch why don't you just keep sucking dick and taking it in the ass like all the other twat bitches.As for my fucking grammar I didn't know that my teacher was spell checking my homework,but answer me this one if your so fucking smart why would I be messing with Ken Haley's old ass ,just to pester him with my venom.- I think not twat ,I want to fuck with his feeble mind like Wanker did with that cum dribbling bitch Haley.Mary Ann fuck you. I would advise you to take a look in the mirror and ask yourself "Do I really want to go on with this sick twisted psychopathic sociopath.I think you just want me to fuck with you mind twatless bitch.As for MR.Ken Haley I hope you don't think this over im not even finished yet !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken Haley I have warned you about your stupid facts about your slut daughter,Do yourself and her a favor give it up already,nobody is on this thread anymore that cares I've done ran everybody off. As for miss Mary Ann let me guess you're in porn please bitch the only porn you've done is filming yourself giving head with your cellphone. Oh yeah bitch im hispanic not white why does everyone think im white . I've done accomplished what I always wanted and you know what it is to have you worthless cum gobbling hoes keep my homie Chico Wang in your thoughts. As for Ken Haley you old senile bastard why don't you go take some pictures of Mary Ann she might like the attention you keep giving this slut. This bitch is the only hoe that keeps fanning my flames of hate even more . Sometimes I can't wait to read her fucking thoughtless blog writing of me ,but you can't have my dick bitch,I don't fuck cunts bitch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 187 all day bitches ride or die ................. im a gangster made of stone, a bitch killa to the bone,I said it, I meant it, im here to represent it,if I die have no pity,just bury me in cali the gangsta city,take that blue flag and lay it across my chest,and tell my homies I did my best.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BITCHES AINT SHIT BUT HOES AND TRICKS

My homie Joker187 thanks for showing me this thread,all I know is its on bitches .You know how long it took me to find you and this stupid fucking forum of filth.It feels like we gonna do the the same shit to these putos like we did on other threads. I don't know about you but I have seen that hoe at the top ,she is fucking fugly though but I would fuck her though.So anyways im here to back you up against this bitch mary ann and kensabe. You know the internet is like the Twilight Zone aint no way out this bitch!

Oh yeah don't get it twisted Mary Ann im talking about I have seen that bitch HALEY PAIGE not you besides I don't believe you're in porn,and if you are what's you're name so me and Joker can pass judgement on you as you deem it necessary to pass judgement on him .Look all im here to do is back him up,im not the bad guy but I do know one thing he did know that korean motherfucker,I just don't know why he keeps defending him.Human nature is a weird thing,Kensabe you seem to be cool,don't take anything Joker says with a grain of salt.

Kensabe,

I am back now. I readed your previous posts with great interest and with perplexity. After nearly one year of investigation, assuming this investigation was carried on with seriousness and care, the conclusions of the autopsy report (as reported by you) seem really confused for me. It was not a good thing in itself but the idea of an accidental overdose looked the more plausible.
So Maryam was apparently in the process to get off drug and this is sounds positive for me. Here I thank Lubu921 for his clear output. But on the other hand I don't understand how a twenty-five year old woman can die and that the authorities are unable to establish a credible explanation. I stop here on that topic, my feeble english cannot support my toughts.
Kensabe you proposed your own version of Maryam's death. Nobody on this thread knows Maryam better than you but this time I frankly hope you're wrong. I have no medical knowledge but on a personnal side the thought of your daughter giving up the will to live looks very sad and hard to believe. From my limited perception Maryam Haley had "la vie chevillée au corps" (= she hung up to life). You are frank with us, I am frank with you. I don't speak on behalf of religious beliefs, I am an atheist. Simply I don't see why she should have thought she must give up. She was at the beginning of her life....

Kensabe,I have another questions, possibly another "reflexions" about Maryam Haley/Haley Paige but I don't know exactly how to begin.
On the other hand I look at the calendar and I wonder if it's the appropriate timeline to do this.

Support on you and your family.

Yours, Kerguelen.

MaryAnne,

I want to thank you for your friendly words about Maryam Haley and for your colourful posts about who you know. If you go back here don't fell in the trap. Sane people know who is writing sane posts and who is depicting himself as a fool.

You traced a portrait of Chico Wang I really found impressive. It would be useless and unfair to pass a harsh judgement on a man I never knew but the majority of testimonies seems to go in the same way about him.
MaryAnne do you know what was said about Maryam Haley and mr Wang in the Industry? I don't mean gossip but how was their relationship perceived? It seems they were two persons with personalities quite different if not opposed.

I hope all is OK in your life and I wish you good luck;

Yours, Kerguelen.

One last thing to do today.

I have got good memory and I know who is who on this thread. I remember too what have been written and by which person.

Watching porn doesn't prevent me to possess some values. One example? Surprinsingly enough I refrain from insulting persons, even the persons which I don't like very much.
That's said, one can understand I don't like very much the persons who insult another persons here.
One can understand I don't like very much the persons who insult the father of a deceased daughter.
One can understand I don't like very much the persons who insult this deceased person.

On a very personal side, all the persons who insult Maryam Haley/Haley Paige cross the red line. I will never discuss with this kind of "persons".

I will not forget neither the name of Maryam Haley/Haley Paige nor her smile. These are memories and thoughts very precious and pleasant, far more stronger in my mind than all the insensitive and stupid comments.

I want here to greet, in no particular order: Azza, Kensabe, JJ, Thors, Cornet, Lubu921, AceMaster, BenJammen, Brian, MaryAnne, Nighthawk, SmokeyHormel, BigDaddy, Ida Clair, BDT, DanjahOne....... The list is not closed.

RIP Maryam, never forgotten.

Fuck you Kergulen and Mary Ann and Ken Haley !!!!!!!!!

good one, dogshit187. Very original! Just one last thought , dogshit and this will be all that you exsistance warrents. You and your half wit cronies will not prevail. Us who want to remember and cherish the memory Maryam will do so. Your pitiful efforts to run us off this thread are futile. Mark my words.
MaryAnne, I love the way you really made this fool angry.Ha Ha Ha! I love it. A taste of his own medicine. Dogshit's reaction to your comments really showed that you got under his skin. Well done, and I respect your perspective. But as you said, best for all of us to ignore dogshit and his anal lover....whovever his new friend is.
Let us try our best to keep this threed in peace, love, and memory of the tragic story of a very special lady; and positive correspondence to her father, who is such a special person and an inspiration to me.

On a blog related to the death of Maryam Haley I found this comment a few months ago. It has been written by an anonymous person on 3rd february 2008. I repost this tribute here because at the time I discovered it (and still now) these words went straight to my heart.

"Wow... just became aware of Maryam's tragic untimely passing from our realm. I know it's way after the fact but I really don't keep up with "industry" at all.

Let me preface these comments with an understanding that I am an artist with a Masters in Clinical Psychology.
I know there are an infinite number of stories of this caliber within the industry, but she (in my opinion) embodied the innocence of the lamb (as pictured). I don't mean this lightly... throughout the history of this industry there has never been someone who has truly transcended her beauty and fragility onto the camera/screen as her. And these are just two of the innumerable talents that she was able to emote: to suggest this merely in a sexual manner would be to miss the point of this infortunate requiem.
I am well aware of pretty much all of the current talent in the business, and I can tell you and everyone else that she was the truest gem ever to cross this occupation. The number of titles she appeared in (in the time frame that she peformed) is a testament to her ability to transfer the innocence of her soul into her character Haley Paige. She gave the people what they wanted... but in a way that no one else could. I have done charcoals/oils and pastels of many "starlets" but the one who always took my breath was Maryam. Every picture/pose was frameable.
The courage and soul that she projected on film infortunately was not enough to help her to a path which would lead her to find someone to her ultimate goal. She tells it in her own words that all she really wanted to do was to be married have children and be a mother.
To read the vulnerability of her response to people who spoke of her sagging breasts... what the fuck do you think made her a top attraction in the industry? It was the fact that she was real... yes people... breasts have a natural curve/sag... humans have sretch marks. Those who live in the plastic fantastic world of fantasy and implants probably have not been with a true woman and/or are truly warped.
Every performance... every scene it is very apparent that she bared not only her flesh, but her soul. I have seen the performances in Hollywood mainstream films... the actors and actresses. There are few in that industry who can claim such talent in their effort.

She wore the weight of the world on her shoulders in such a insurmountable manner in her personnal life, but managed to perform her craft unlike countless others.

Thank you for this forum an letting my expression of these feelings be written upon the hearings of this nova flaming to soon.

Maryam... your soul is now in the goodness and grace of the almighty."

Ken Haley I've extended my olive branch of peace but you have denied me my peace of mind,so I will continue not only on this thread and but on other threads as well,I like the way you keep praising that cumbag bitch Mary Ann and all these fucking liberal bastards so anyways my ravenous ways of destroying you will continue.To all of my dearest friends Loki especially im glad to see you join the great one ,I almost thought that you had join these ball gobbling bastards and their false idol of that hoebag bitch HALEY PAIGE! Any other person can read my my rants and see im the only sane one here in all this shit.Till next time bitches !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ken Haley I've extended my olive branch of peace but you have denied me my peace of mind,so I will continue not only on this thread and but on other threads as well,I like the way you keep praising that cumbag bitch Mary Ann and all these fucking liberal bastards so anyways my ravenous ways of destroying you will continue.To all of my dearest friends Loki especially im glad to see you join the great one ,I almost thought that you had join these ball gobbling bastards and their false idol of that hoebag bitch HALEY PAIGE! Any other person can read my my rants and see im the only sane one here in all this shit.Till next time bitches !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks, Kerguelen, another great tribute to her. If she hadn't chosen to enter the adult movie side of entertainment, what other venue would she have fit into, with perhaps not such tragic consequences? Would she have succeeded as a model? What type of modeling? Acting?

Modeling my ass Ken Haley the only thing your daughter was good at was good ole ass stuffing..She had so many dicks in her ass she looked like a Thanksgiving turkey. Gobble Gobble.... I mean for real she didn't have a good looking body that's what started this fucking thread ... anyways later...../!!!!!!!!

Kensabe,

it's an interesting but difficult question you raised here.
Unlike you I have got no particular capacities to answer to this topic. However (without being to intrusive and ridiculous I hope) I have got some speculative comments.

First I suppose you discussed the subject with your daughter during her childhood and adolescence. So what were her dreams, her goals concerning her future or more precisely her professionnal life?

If I remember correctly after she departed from high school she entered directly in active life, working at Blockbuster. Shortly after apparently she entered into the Industry. Of course it was probably the most important decision she made during her life. If we let apart the moral considerations and the tendencious comments, obviously it was not an insignificant decision. But this decision is so connected with her intimate feelings, with how apparently she perceived herself (with her strenghts and weaknesses) that I think it's not time to discuss about this here.

For a time, once she was in the Industry, she seemed to have mixed feelings. In differents interviews she gave (as Haley Paige) in 2004 and 2005 she made opposite statements: in 2004 she said she wanted in the future to be an housewife, with no professionnal activity. In 2005 she spoke of her desire to become a psychologist. It looks like her wishes became more precise as years passed.

Kensabe,

I don't know if you have got now some informations about the career of your daughter in the Industry. I could be wrong but it seems that this career was near to her end. at the end of 2006 Haley Paige announced her retirement from the adult movie business and she really stopped all her activities in this area (in fact it was apparently the "official" recognition of a previous state of fact). True, Haley Paige then announced in may 2007 her wish to re-enter the Industry. Actually I don't know if this wish was implemented or not. But it is some common behaviour to many adult performers: the break with the Industry doesn't occur in one time. Such "returns" take place before the final departure.
I know these events cannot be separated from the general context of the life of Maryam Haley. But if we consider strictly her involvement in the industry I frankly think it was slowly in the descending slope.
Then the question becomes: what could have do Maryam Haley after the Industry?

Working in a modelling agency? That was the covering she build to protect her secret. It looked credible to you so I assume it's not a far-fetched idea.
Acting? Why not? It was one of her desires she expressed in a interview. Passing from adult to mainstream movies is surely not easy, it is impossible?
She could too have exploited one of her strenghts: her capacity to inspire confidence and fellow feeling. The easy way with which she established good relations with another people is a subject mentionned by many persons (family, friends, co-workers, interviewers....). From that the idea she expressed of working as a psychologist doesn't seem far-fetched to me. I think too as social worker. Anyway a job where she could have provided some relief to people.
Maryam Haley said she lacked confidence on herself, did she know she projected from her personnality strong good feelings on another persons?

Of course switching from adult business to "real" life would not have be easy. But she was only twenty-five years old. She had still plenty of time to determine what she wanted to do and to find the way to attain her goals.

I am well aware of the sad reality but I don't believe in fate. Apparently nobody knows with certainty what has happened in King City. From my point of view the future of Maryam Haley was not at all barred even in august 2007.

Well it is perhaps a worthless soliloquy but here are my two cents.

Yours, Kerguelen.

Great discussion, thank you Kerguelen. I can't explain Maryam's sexual evolution, she didn't tell me much about her behavior. I know she had a sentimental side that seemed to carry over to her relationships, which makes me think that she was more into romance than sex. But she obviously had great sexual prowess that as her father I wasn't in tune with. Perhaps sex was more of a way to manipulate men than an obsession, and her girlish romanticism got in the way of her being a dedicated sex object. When she found out the Hungarian fellow married her in order to get his green card, she was seething with fury. She really thought he treasured her. Maybe she felt under-appreciated as a woman, but her reaction to his betrayal was white fury rather than feeling sorry for herself. I believe she was quite self-sufficient in many ways, and no doubt felt alone, which may be the result of being an only child. She had a few good friends in life, one from childhood, but didn't identify with too many people that I know of, other than me. But her father's identity could only go so far in creating her own, and I don't think she had found her real self-identity before she died. She enjoyed directing attention to herself, usually in innocent ways, which would explain her enjoying performing. But she also knew when people and situations were unhealthy, and in her last few days told her mother that she wanted out of the relationship with Chico. She must have been completely burned out with that lifestyle, but was obligated to go back for some reason. Although she didn't die of a drug overdose, and I don't believe she was using heroin as Chico claimed, she was taking methadone and probably didn't have a way to pay for it on her own. She asked me for money while she was at her mom's place just before going back to Chico, and I sent her a couple hundred dollars. Chico had also tried to get money out of me. I wonder if they both were somewhat broke, and she was contemplating another movie to raise money. At the same time, her spirit seemed to have been broken, and she had little hope of breaking away from the lifestyle she had come to detest. What she needed was a lifeline. Her parents tried to throw her one, but it was too thin to do much good. She had fallen too deep into the hell hole that Chico Wang had dug for her. She needed a hundred lifelines, and given time, I think her friends and family could have come to her rescue.

First, Kensabe, thanks for sharing everything.

I've taken the liberty of reposting some of your insightful comments on my own blog post (URL at comment #84), especially the long letter broken up into several comments. If you want me to remove these excerpts from my blog post, just let me know. (They're your words, not mine).

I don't think the problem is one of "death wish" but a kind of inertia driven by weakness and an inability to see alternatives. I don't think the porn industry should be demonized that much although certain elements are too abusive; it is probably not a good environment to grow in, but no job is perfect. Maybe the porn life seemed easy for her at the time; who knows.

It's good to hear that eventually she came clean with you about her career. She probably thought she was protecting you from the ugly stuff.

Perhaps some secrets are meant to be carried to the grave.

By the way, isn't it ironic that she would not resent being a sex object in adult films but be appalled that something was using her for immigration purposes. It's too bad though that it didn't work out. Disappointment is disappointment, I guess. I guess you can distance yourself from the theatrical nature of the adult business, but you can't laugh off a failed relationship as easily.

It's good that you could round out her character for those of us who saw her in her "porn identity." That's an important public service. Thanks for giving us some answers; hope you can find your answers you seek; I imagine a parent must experience quite a bit of guilt about a child's mistakes. It must have been horrifying for Chico to be so abusive to you as well.

If this thread teaches me anything, it's that you really need to treasure the good memories; you never know when the string will break.

I like your blog, Robert, and it's a good way to keep paying tribute to Maryam. Anything I have posted online is of course out there and free to be used, and you are doing it tastefully and I approve of the way my thoughts and words are presented. I would like to ask you if I should post on your blog and perhaps move this discussion to that venue and kind of get away from some of the distracting noise on Bastardly. I notice that Kerguelen posts there (in perfect English--I knew you was fakin' it, brother!), and there are other voices, quiet and thoughtful who follow along. I'm not embarrassed to speak my heart on Bastardly, but I would prefer a more dignified blog. I'd enjoy writing to your blog, if you think it would be beneficial.

We're coming up on the anniversary of Maryam's death (though as one of your contributors said, maybe she faked it, and I sure pray for that idea). There is much to share about her. I'd be honored to be the vehicle.

Ken,

I've been reading this forum for the past year, and have yet to comment. Part of it is my sense of shame. I've been a fan of your daughter's work, and was terribly saddened at the news of her passing. How can I, who viewed your lovely daughter's work, send you my condolences? It just felt wrong to me to do so. But I will now. I am so sorry for you and your family, and I pray that Maryam will finally find the peace that she deserves. You and your family are in my thoughts and prayers.

Dear Fan,
It's totally appropriate to send your condolences and I receive them gratefully and with fresh tears. I'm hoping through these discussions to humanize her so that the persona she was perceived to be will be replaced by the daughter and woman she was and could have been for a full lifetime. I definitely don't want to know her as you have known her, and I've yet to dwell too much on that aspect of her being. I'm not ashamed of her nor for her, though I am saddened by an apparent waste of her potential that could have been better fulfilled in a worthier pursuit. That she starred in porn rather than a less tainted medium was her choice, and there's nothing anyone could have done to detour her from that choice. I was appalled and shocked when I learned of her career, but I did not feel a lessening of my respect, love, and admiration for her and her strength of will. I hope you will appreciate her much more now that you are learning about her real life and the people she meant so much to. Thank you for speaking up.

21 août 2008.

On this peculiar day, all my thoughts and sympathy for Maryam Haley's family.

Maryam, sweet lady, wherever you could be I wish you are at peace!

Dear Kensabe,
I was an ordinary internet porn consumer until I learned about your daughter's death a few month ago. I still remember when I first saw her in 2004 and, like so many of us, kind of fell in love with her. I found an e-mail address in one of her interviews and thought about contacting her but soon discarded the idea because I thought I was just one in a million. So I kept on collecting movies and pics... now I erased them all. Instead I'm giong to keep these private pictures which you published here - I hope you don't mind.

Don't think all this is easy for me as it is kind of a confession. Now I feel asahmed of what I have done all those years. There may be many who laugh about this, but now I don't care anymore. Yes, I'm through with porn and some entries on this page give me even more reason to quit.

You had to stand a lot of critics here. You won't hear any of me. I guess I'm about the age you were when Maryam was born. I don't have children but I know there is a small dividing line between taking (too much) care and letting them live their own life. Besides, there isn't anything harder than losing one's own child. There's nothing much I can offer you but my deepest sympathy for you and your family.

I really hope you will finish your book. Please let us know. If you don't find a publisher, just send me a copy of the typed manuscript.

Dear Maryam,
finally I dare addressing directly to you (and it hurts a lot). I wonder how often you went to the set feeling like having a heavy stone in your stomach. You had to kill the pain with narcotics in order to keep that certain smile at the end of the scene. And I was so stupid to watch all of this. Sure, otherwise I would never have learned about you but nevertheless I feel sorry about it.

Now that I have said everything I wanted, there remains only one thing which I can do for you. It's a little promise: One day I will be there in Brentwood California, putting flowers on your grave. Who knows, maybe a little humming bird will cross my way...

Thank you for everything Maryam. I shall never forget you.

k (from germany)

It's hard to believe it's been a year since Maryam died. My condolences again, Ken, to you and your family.

Wonderful, K from Germany! I know she will appear to you if you visit her grave. And thank you, too, Mark and Kerguelen. Today I was remembering Maryam with a friend of mine at work who lost her 13-year-old son from disease just 4 months ago. Parents who have lost children, no matter what age, have a special bond. We don't want a lot of sympathy, and we don't want people to treat us differently. We want to talk about our lost ones, and we want to share the joy they gave us in this life. You guys are like a healing balm to my heart, and I thank you for your kindness. I know Maryam thanks you, too.

Dear KenSabe. I am an artist and was thinking about doing a mural portarit of Haley. Do you have any special pictures portrait style exclusive shots that you would like to be painted. The mural would be in Los Angeles. Regardless Let me Know. All your insights and history on Haley are really cool, Forget all the ignorance. Bottom Line she was a human being and had a soul. Her Place in this world was special, and people should learn from everything. Let me know about the pics. I cxan get a ton of pictures online, but I was thinking it might have more meaning if the picture came from you. Thanks Dame

DameyDame,

there is a link to Maryam Haley's photos posted by her father on post 42 on this thread. I don't know if this can help you but these photos exist.

Anyway, I wish you good luck for your project. Personally, I would be very interested to see this portrait.

Hello all, someone just sent me a link to this thread and that Hailey's father participated in the thread as well. I knew Hailey for quite some time. My first experience with her was actually for Chico Wang way before they ever dated or hung out. It was a BJ scene shot in my car.

After that we worked together 3 times in one week. The first was a strange bondage shoot without sex that took forever, but was kind of fun. After the scene, I took her to dinner at the Olive Garden, and we chatted about life for a long time.

Hailey was a sweet girl at that time, who talked about Australia and how much she wanted to live there.

We did another scene together for InnocentHigh.com and it was a lot of fun, as we had pretty good chemistry.

This was in 2006, and after that I didn't see her again until she passed away. I get very sad thinking about her, because I will always believe she was a good person who simply lost her way.

This business is very hard on the female talent, whether they are contract girls or barely working, in the end, all females struggle to find their way in life after the business has chewed them up and spit them out.

I hope she has found some peace in death, and that she is in a better place.

ChristianXXX
www.christiansingstheblu es.com

Ill post a link when its done.

DameyDame,
Did you find her photos? I don't have very many of her in digital form. I could send a few to you if you can't access them. Christian, thanks for your memories of her. Wish you would tell more stories about her life in L.A. Those were lost years for me, because she didn't tell me much about her activities, other than the failed marriage with Csaba and the hint of problems with Chico. Glad you're participating in the forum. I'm pretty sure we're attracting attention beyond the posters. It's a unique memorial for her friends and fans, and a healing method for me.

DameyDame,

thanks for your answer! Of course I guess that such an artistic work will require a great amount of time. By curiosity have you got already an idea of the size of this mural portrait?

Irrelevant addition: Bastardly altered his presentation. I am hoping that the disappearance of the numbered comments is temporary. If not here is comment 283.

To the idiot who calls himself Joker> Odds are you are a little man in real life who has no power over the people at home so your taking it out online .Tough guy!!! amusing really that you cant even think of an original bad guy to impersonate and have made a complete dick of yourself here.Keep hiding fool.

May she find peace in heaven, she was beautiful and I will miss her.

Ken, I'm so sorry for your loss, I only learned of her passing today. I was shocked. I admit I was one of her fans. From what I have read, she was as beautiful on the inside as she was on the outside. Please ignore the idiots who fail to realize she was a person with real problems and real feelings. I think it is great that you have taken the time to communicate with some of her fans and friends here. I too wish she could of had an easier life, but know she has found peace with God now. Her life story would make a excellent book or movie, perhaps you should explore that option to allow people to know who she was. I believe she deserves justice if there was foul play in her death. I would be glad to help in anyway I could. May God bless you with the comfort of knowing your daughter is in his care now....john

trix are for kids you silly dickpimple- nothing better to do with your homies in the mega-gangsta-hood center of everything burb of yours? OKMULGEE fucking OKLAHOMA ,? REALLY ? I think I would have to sneak back to Bogata just to escape that shithole burb.
no matter how much you try this world just doesnt give a shit about you or your pathetic attempt to achieve such grand heights as choking to death on your own methadone induced spew in a crappy bed in a crappy motel room in a crappy little town -you just dont matter to the world
your a fucking joke

Kensabe,

j'espère de tout coeur vous revoir bientôt par ici.

Amitiès, Kerguelen.

Merci, ami Kerguelen. I'm still around, and I'll write a longer note soon. I check to see if you're still around, too. The "coeur" has been hurting lately, more than usual. The anniversary, or another stage of grief. There is a lovely new Emmylou Harris song that opens the floodgates whenever I put it on. Here's a couple of verses:

I can't believe you're really gone for good,
I still haunt places you once stood,
I should move on but I never could
really believe that you were gone for good.

Oh my friend what could I do,
I just came home to bury you,
The road is long, the road is rough,
You're in my heart...
That's not close enough.

I still have your memory,
One or two pictures of you and me,
Life is long and life is tough,
But when you love someone
life's not long enough.

Kensabe,

many thanks for your answer. I wanted to post a link to an interview from Maryam Haley that could interest you. Technical failures (one more time...) prevented me to do so. But perhaps do you know already this interview, made in August 2004 by "Snowman"?

I can't predict the future of this thread, I can only say (and it's not a question of flattery but the recognition of the reality) that without you it would have got no raison d'être. In my previous post I reverted to my first language with the intention of sending out "discreetly" this message.

The most important now: take care of you, Kensabe!
I know nothing about folk music but the verses of this song.... It requires much talent when one wants to express deep human feelings. These Emmylou Harris's words are simply amazing by the strength and the emotion they convey!

Yours, Kerguelen.

Kensabe,

finally my "lost" comment suddenly poped up (and will probably disappear in a few weeks...). If it interests you the post is from September 12th. The links to Maryam Haley's interview works.

Yours, Kerguelen.

Hola Kerguelen,
I enjoy your French lessons, I'll give you some Spanish classes as reward. That interview I had found quite a while ago and liked it because she was really herself and talked about things that I knew were important to her at that time. She must have only been in the business a couple of years, and she and I were writing and sometimes calling on the phone, but I didn't have any idea what her professional life was all about. She had me believing that she worked as an appointment setter for a modeling agency, so I guess I knew the general area of her work. The interview is so close to her real tone of voice that it feels as if she's alive right next to me. We had a strong bond, and shared music and literature and movies and crazy ideas together. She turned me on to some writers and singers, and I did the same for her. I was surprised she liked folk music as much as she did, because her first pop music interest was rap and R&B, like the Fugees, and then Madonna and Celine Dione and other pop stars. But folk music appealed to her because of its honesty and simplicity. We lived in Canada for a year when she was in junior high school, and we discovered some of the Canadian singers, and then she began to listen to some of my favorites, like Woody Guthrie and Dylan and Joni Mitchell. Through them she learned to appreciate Ani Difranco and the Tori Amos and the modern folk artists, who took folk music into different areas. She actually met Ani in Australia after a concert, and was too shy to talk to her. The Woody Guthrie festival in Oklahoma, which I took her to when she came for a long visit in 2001, was a turning point for her. Later she went on her Australia trip, and after she returned, she was having trouble finding a good job. I tried to help her find something in San Diego, and it was about then that she got into the adult business, according to that interview. I can understand how the attention she got as a performer made her feel more self-confident, and I can also understand that she didn't want her parents to find out about her success. Though I know she would have wanted her mom and dad to feel proud of her accomplishments. If somehow she could have taken her talents in a slightly different direction, she could have achieved success and acceptance at the same time. I believe she took the opportunities that presented themselves, and when adult acting stretched its hand out to her, she grabbed it. Her quick ascent to stardom no doubt made her feel that she had made a good choice. But if she couldn't share her experiences with her own family, then she must have felt a hollowness, something missing. Or knowing her, she might have decided that her career would last only so long, serve its purpose, and then take her new self-confidence and find a more rewarding endeavor that her dad would be proud of. Of course, it wasn't the experience or the profession that took her life, it was the evil that lies beneath the surface that caught her by the throat and didn't let her get away.

Que piensas de eso?

Kensabe,

as usually, a very strong and interesting post. I really ask for more time to organize my answer. On August 13th you wrote importants comments too about which I will probably come back.

One more time I thank you for your patience and courage. I am aware of the imbalance in our exchanges. You provide invaluable and so humane lights about your daughter Maryam; I can only made comments about your writings and bring to you the few I know about Haley Paige, the amazing character created by Maryam Haley.

A bientôt! Kerguelen

hello :)

first of all: i'm from germany, so please ignore my grammar ok? ;) i have seen a lot of blogs over the i-net but this here is absolutly amazing. respekt to all of you out there. but now to the main topic: maryam haley.
my first thought was when i saw her for the first time: damn! to be honest: i never ever saw such a beautiful person before in my life. but that is not important i think. what is important is the fact that a person touched so many souls out there without a personal contact. that is unbelievable! i think everyone has a first feeling when he sees a person for the first time. and my feeling was: wow! that girl has to have a beautiful soul.
when i read that that beautiful girl is gone...i was so sad and i'm still sad because i know how it feels to loose a beloved person. but let me tell you one thing ken: someday when you see a photo of her in the future: you will smile and not cry anymore. believe me: it works ;)
back to maryam: i have to say that i'm not a big fan of porn. first a saw an interview with maryam. i didn't know the person who was talking. but i clicked on the interview because the picture of the person who was interviewed was so ...pretty...its that simple...in a way the picture told me to click. after that i found over the months a lot of porn with her but i still can not watch a movie with her because that is not the way i want to see her. it is still like that. she was a person, you never expected to be in that business. i do not jugde over her or something...no...i just want to let you know that there are people all over the world who were amazed just because of her face and her behavior in front of a camera (with clothes on ;)).
now then...i hope my english does not bother you to much...:)
ken...we say here in germany: ohren steif halten! it means something like: you will pass this hard time for sure. and you can count on me and a lot of other germans and people all over the planet that we will never forget the pretty young and charming girl named maryam irene haley.
all the best from germany
BuckRogers

Buck,
I take your words and thoughts to heart, thank you for the tribute to Maryam and to the soul of the child I helped bring into this world. Thank you as well as many others for recognizing her true worth. I believe what you say that I will climb out of the depths of my despair at this time and learn to treasure her in new ways. It is interesting that you wrote today from Germany. This evening I met a nice man who moved to Oregon from Germany. His wife is Chinese and working in the university here. We had a wonderful conversation about language and the travels we all have had. I wanted to bring up my daughter to the conversation, because he was talking about New Zealand, where Maryam traveled to during a year of travel. She met Elijah Woods there on an elevator, it was during the filming of the Lord of the Rings. So many souls in this life are entertwined. I am honored to count you as a new friend, and I invite you to add more thoughts and insight to this forum. We can keep it going in her memory.

wow it sounds like everyone wants some erect penis tits that are made out of petroleum or something. what a bunch of paris Hilton loving fags

hey ken!

she met elijah wood there? man... i tell you: my sister LOVES that tiny hobbit ;)of course i don't know why but...its ok...i think :D did she tell you what she said to him? or was she just staying in shock und thinking: "oh my...ELIJAH WOOD!!!!" :D a very funny situation i think. i never met a REAL famous person... as a kid i met a soccerplayer...as you know soccer is here something like american football in the usa...but i have to admit: that guy was NOT famous...i thought he was but he wasn't :D never seen again...bad career.;)
but back to maryam: since i found out that she was in the adult busiess, i asked myself: why did she do that? i can only imagine how often you asked that question yourself over the last months and maybe it is not my business but maybe you found an answer. my answer is...i have no answer: she was young and maybe it was a fault...i don't know...i mean everyone of us making mistakes. do you know how she thought about that business she was involved in? i know that there was not much time between the day you found out about all and the day of her passing.
i hope that i'm not to personal...and i understand when you don't want to talk about all the things. its so curious...but the destiny of your daughter really touches me.
best wishes from the too cold germany to the hopefully not THAT cold usa.;)
BuckRogers

Kensabe,

I owe to you an answer concerning your post from September 21th. Translating in written english my french thoughts is never easy and at the moment I am physically embarassed for writing (a small and minor health issue but a real one).
Be patient, my answer will come, probably in several tiny posts like this one.

Welcome here, BuckRogers! Without being to intrusive, can I ask you from wich part of Germany you are (when I was a schoolboy I travelled many times to Bavaria)?

Yours, Kerguelen.

Kensabe,

here comes my answer. I will try to divide it according the different topics tackled.
First, Maryam Haley's background. Her taste for folk music was evidently a strong part of her identity: she mentioned this fact in every interview she gave (and remember the friendly incredulity of "Snowman" in the interview from 2004 when she spoke about folk for the first time). It is good to know that in this area she managed to fulfil her goals: to be physically in presence of some great folk singers. No doubt: folk music enlightened her life. Could you just explain a little more why the Woody Guthrie festival in Oklahoma in 2001 was such a "turning point" for her?
You said too that you shared "crazy ideas" with your daughter. Even if the "concept" of "crazy ideas" is as various as the world is vast, you raised especially my attention here. On Robert Nagle's site "Joel", an Oklahoma friend of Maryam, spoke about the "strange things" Maryam allegedly said. But I guess it's probably from your perspective and even from "Joel"'s one only innocent jokes. Nevertheless, a little clue about the crazy ideas please?
An another thing this person said you will probably approve of, he described Maryam Haley as a "free spirit" person.

Do the elements above suffice to describe a person? In her integrity, in her complexity? Evidently no. But from my point of view, thanks to them the portrait of Maryam Haley is refining, "touche après touche".
Another important element: the way Maryam Haley was dealing with politics. She was once secretary of the Tulsa chapter of the Oklahoma Green party, not a common experience isnt'it? She described herself as "a progressive, liberal lefty". I should say, even if political situations and definitions are different between America and Europe, on a very personal position, Maryam Haley's political commitment sounds positive to me.

Of course there are another interesting areas to speak about, like Maryam Haley's position towards religion but I fear (should I?) to enter in a too much debated question. But a request: is the first name "Maryam" connected to Baha'i faith?

Kensabe,

I want now to speak about the involvement of Maryam Haley in the Industry. I have not the honest prudence of other people here nor their tact concerning intimate facts that obviously don't concern me. So yes, probably to your displeasure, Haley Paige is back.

To begin I should confess I am a little confused about the precise entry of Maryam Haley in the Industry. I tought according her biography on Wikipedia that she was partially involved in the Industry since 2001 (roughly), then came her great trip to Australia, New Zealand, Hawaii (around 2002? A mixture of personal and professional trip?). After this trip like you said she had difficulties in finding a good job and then entered completely in the adult business in 2003.
The problem is that there is little evidence Maryam Haley was connected before 2003 with this kind of business. And if words have a sense she dated herself in her interviews her entry in adult business from the beginning of 2003.
I am really ashamed to question you on this kind of topic but have you got any clue about this issue?

I question about this chronology because in my mind it is really important. I could be wrong but the great trip of 2002 seemed to have played a pivotal rôle in many aspects. I should add that establishing a precise chronology is a part of my job: I teach history-geography (well, I said it!).

Kensabe, to be fair, when we think about your daughter we inevitably have in mind the ordeals she faced in her childhood, adolescence and young adulthood. Just to remember: the uncle, the episode in high school and the bitter end of the 2002's travel. You said she had "strong will power", I have absolutely no doubts about that and for the most part she went through these ordeals and I take off my hat to her on this occasion. But in all objectivity the kind of difficulties she faced is not shared by common people. What I want to said is that in this area life was not kind with her.
I don't pretend these "incidents" shaped her entire life and "explain" all her subsequent actions but inevitably they left some scars on her. I should add she seemed to have bad chance in her relationship with men.
One last element, yes Maryam Haley had strong will power. But am I wrong when I think that she was reluctant to share her problems with persons not intimately related to her? In other words she took on herself to bear her problems and doubts. A courageous attitude but an open door to loneliness...

I was a big fan of Haley Paige. She was the girl I Googled when I wanted to rub out that quick one.

Oddly, I found myself pretty upset when I found out about her passing. I say "oddly" because I didn't know her. She had no real connection to my life. She was just a girl I jerked off to. I had no Idea why I felt this sense of loss... I still don't...

For the most part I got past it. Ocassionally I still feel sad when I think about Haley. I think "I could have saved her." Or, "I could have made her happy." Or "All she needed was someone to love her." Stupid sentimental shit like that crosses my mind from time to time.

But have any of you ever met a girl in porn? Or how about just a plain old stripper? They have their defenses up and NO ONE can get through that. I've had first hand experience with girls like this and THEY CANNOT be saved. They don't think that they need to be saved. They don't want to be saved.

Haley is the only person that could have saved Haley.

Kensabe seems to be enjoying the spotlight here a little too much. He's enjoying popularity on the internet at the expense of his own daughter's life. He's using her death to promote his shitty photography. He's acting as if he had no part in Haley becoming a porn star.

GUESS WHAT KENSABE?!?!?! IT'S ALL YOUR FUCKING FAULT!!! IF YOU HAVE BEEN A BETTER PARENT SHE WOULD NOT HAVE BECOME A PORN STAR!!! IF SHE HAD NOT BECOME A PORN STAR SHE WOULD STILL BE ALIVE!!! If you had not made all of the fucking mistakes that you made, she probably would be a house wife with a ouple of kids living a quiet and happy life just like she always wanted to.

And these last 2 posts by kerguelen were just plain disturbing. Dude, I have read every post on here... and at first I was right there with you. I understood everything you said and related to how you were feeling... but these last 2 posts... DUDE!!! You have officially lost it. I'm gonna go outy on a limb here and guess that you have bought all of her movies, printed a shit load of her pictures, and you probably printed one from her "father's" collection and framed it... DIDN'T YOU?!?!?!

You have lost it dude. I hope my kid is not in your fucking class becasue it sounds like you are one step away from jacking off to Haley's pictures in class while you cry ad talk about her life and death.

Kensabe, go away. Kerguelen get a grip.

I'm not trying to be mean or hateful, but damn, you guys have taken this shit too far. Get some distance and perspective so you can see what you're doing. It's sick.

Kensabe,

concerning precisely the entry of Maryam Haley in the adult business I think in my humble opinion that her decision cannot be separated from what she perceveid herself as her weak points. If I understood correctly, at the beginning of 2003 she was in San Diego after the conclusion of her great trip to South hemisphere. She was jobless and her situation was not easy.
Perhaps the most important some doubts about herself were probably at work. She enjoyed her trip but at the end apparently her boss practically confined her illegaly. In sum she lost the control of the situation and her willpower was denied. Sadly she had experienced this kind of dire experiences earlier in her life. As a result she was lacking of self-confidence and she probably questioned herself about the nature of her relations with men. And as you said yourself, Kensabe, she was probably asking too for the only real question on this thread: "Who is Maryam Haley?"

I don't know San Diego nor California. In a naive way perhaps I cannot assess correctly the presence or the "power" of the Industry. Like you, Kensabe, I don't know how precisely she entered into the adult business, grabbing on the opportunity or deliberately seeking for it. I just think that nobody is "naturally" fit for this kind of business and I don't think that Maryam Haley was different from this point of view. But I can see some "rational" reasons behind her choice (I hope I will not embarrass you).

The Industry provided her employment and safety in her daily life.
When she worked in this domain she had the control of the situation. She performed in scripted situations where the unexpected (the bad unexpected) was banned. The man was not in command, not in the centre of the attention, SHE was.
I don't know if as you said it was a "way to manipulate men" but I guess it was present in her mind. Evidently the Industry has not this kind of goals registered in her agenda (money is the main and probably only goal). Even if this kind of thinking was sufficiently present in her mind Maryam Haley was wise enough to not mention it in her interviews.

Remember Kensabe the person who was performing is Haley Paige, not really Maryam Haley. But in doing this she was buying time, was rebuilding her self-confidence.
Before entering adult business did she foresee the potential dangers she would encounter? For the main part I think yes and she acted consequently.

Kensabe, I make a pause but I have still things to say to you, my (long) answer is not finished.

Yours, Kerguelen.

kerguelen,

It seems as though you have completely disregarded my post as some type of Internet "flaming." It was not. I was simply trying to snap you out of it. I do not think that my assessment of you was too far off... though I will admit that I have a flair for exaggeration, you do seem like you have lost all rational thinking in regards to this girl who in reality would most likely be creeped out by your posts were she still alive.

Let it go, man. I’m not being mean here. I can see that the death of this young girl is consuming you in a very unhealthy way. You can ignore this post too... but I am right about you. I can tell. I’m not just some young douche on the Internet. I have some insight into basic psychology and you, sir, are going down a very unhealthy road.

Also, I stand by my assessment of Haley’s “father.” Parenting, or lack thereof, makes all the difference in a child’s life.

JAHF,

I see your point about Kerguelen being too attached for someone who didn't know Maryam, but for whatever reason, the communication between him and Ken is cathartic for Ken. Let it be, man...Ken is trying to heal and calling him a bad father doesn't help matters.

With that being said, I realize I didn't ever know Maryam, and the fanboy stuff is creepy and can overtake people's lives. However, I really do wish I had met her in life as Maryam (call me what you will, idealistic, naive, captain save-a-ho). Again, I realize too that it would have been hard to penetrate that wall most people in the industry seem to put up, so, that's another obstacle. But to come full circle, talking is cathartic for her father, so let them continue, ya know?

Kensabe,

if you read this post now I wanted to let you know that I halted to post my answer to you due to the two posts of "just another haley fan". The "basic psychologic" mixture of insults and intimidation didn't really impress me but other aspects of these comments affected me more.
The honest comment of Mark2 added to my own doubts.

Everytime I write here I wonder about my personal involvement on this topic and about the sanity of our talks.
I am not very skilled on psychiatry. At the basis I know perfectly that the way I feel about the disappearance of a person I never knew is not sane. Even if it is not obvious here I try to keep my distance.
If you wish I could expand on this subject but presently I don't have the taste for this.

The most important: if my last comments (September 29th) make you feel ill at ease, please let me know! If you think that I crossed the borders of decency, tell it to me!

Yours, Kerguelen.

Kerguelen,
Do not be concerned, I wrote a long response to you and others a few days ago, but it has not been posted. I suppose it will at some point. It was kind of rambling, but it was important, I think, and I hope you get to read it. Some of your long posts were delayed for a few days, also, weren't they? Really, if you can judge me by how I put up with the thrill-seekers who insult me and my daughter (and others) on this forum, then you'll know I'm not ill at ease about nearly any subject or comment. Especially if it's made with honesty and sincerity. Those are my two most valued criteria for a dialogue, with a good measure of forgiveness for stupidity and crassness added in. Keep writing, there are folks who want us to keep the discussion going.

I had not planned to post here again, but the “didn't really impress me” line annoyed me a bit since my intent was only to help.

kerguelen... whether you are "impressed" by my comments or not, I was trying to help you. My goal was to snap you out of it. Apparently it did not work so you go right ahead and drive yourself nuts. In the end, I stand by my assessment. If Haley Paige was still alive and saw these posts dissecting her decisions, her mental processes, as well as her very existence, she would undoubtedly be afraid of you, she would likely file a police report, and ultimately be creeped out every time she thought about your posts. I’m not wrong here.

As for kensabe... You, sir, are in a very dangerous state of denial. You will be in a sort of psychological limbo, unable to get past the death of your daughter, until you own up to the part that you played in her death. As long as you continue to deny your role in her demise, you will NEVER get past it. Are you really suggesting that you had no part in it simply because you allegedly “didn’t know” what she was doing? Unbelievable! As a parent it was your job to stay connected and make sure that nothing like this happened... but it did... so whose fault was it? Hers?

You guys should exchange phone numbers and talk it out because NO ONE wants you guys to continue down this road except for those who are fascinated by the process of a dual-mental breakdown documented online.

I’m going to move on with my life now. Good luck on the spiral towards insanity.

-JAHF

P.S.
I was right about printing and framing her picture, wasnt I? Thought so...

Hey Haley fan. Kindly fuck off, sir.

"Fuck off?" Really?!?!?!

Is that really the turn you want to take here?

Do you really want to go down this road with me?

I have kept things very mild here because in some ways I pity you and kerguelen... but should you insist on going down this road with me, I will highlight all of your shortcomings and mental deficiencies. I will detail all of the things that you did wrong in regards to your daughter. I will detail all of the reasons that your daughter's death is your entire fucking fault. You have given me all of the ammunition that I need.

With all of the posts you have done here I have dissected your psyche in ways that you can’t even begin to imagine. I have actually taken the time to consult with my colleagues about the posts that you and kerguelen have left here. I even had some of my students write papers on everything that you did wrong as a parent... as well as the mental breakdown of kerguelen.

You guys are psychological fodder for us. You are entertainment... and should you persist down this road... should you EVER tell me to “fuck off” again... I will destroy you on many levels here to the point where you will NEVER post here again.

Now... I said that I was going to move on with my life... but your utter rudeness was enough to bring me back. Should you attack me again... I will be back with a vengeance.

Now Kensabe... own up to the part that you played in your daughter's death.

And kerguelen... get a fucking girlfriend.

JAHF,
What subject do you teach? Just curious...

I thought you were going to stop reading this blog and "move on with your life" as you said earlier. I admit I'm curious as to your psychological prowess and ability to "destroy" someone.

Honestly, all I am doing here is trying to create as positive a result as can be possible from a horrible situation such as this. If Ken can get some peace via these interactions, that's really the best possible outcome, isn't it?

Think about it, Maryam wouldn't want her dad to blame himself for the rest of his life and be miserable, at least I don't think she would, in the same way as a parent wouldn't want their child to be miserable over their death.

Kensabe,

at least we know presently to what we are facing with... There is only one way to deal with this kind of situation: a courteous silence. The anger is a bad adviser, speaking about this case is meaningless, answering doesn't help at all.
Mark2, thanks for your positive contribution, but I fear it, you're wasting your time in trying to speak with sensible arguments.

Kensabe, I am sorry your earlier comment you mentionned on October 5th never appeared here. You should assume it is definitively lost. It's always the case if the comment you try to post doesn't appear immediately on your screen at the bottom of the thread. There is nothing rational behind this, the site operates very good on certains days and not on others. On September 29th I was lucky: I wrote my three comments one after another but all were correctly posted.
As soon as possible I will complete these comments. Of course I hope you will be able, if you want, to post succesfully your previous feedback.

Yours, Kerguelen.

Hi Mark,

My intention was to move on... until kerguelen dismissed me.

Then again, my intent was to move on... until kensabe annoyed me.

Truth be told, my intent was simply to get some type of response from each of them... ANY response. kerguelen would not acknowledge the “weirdness” of his posts. kensabe would not acknowledge ANY fault in Haley’s death. These were both HUGE red flags.

Ultimately, the responses they gave were very telling. I had planned to push it a little further in the days and weeks to come. But on further examination... and with regards to their responses... it seems like “pushing” would cause more harm than good. They are far worse off than I imagined.

They really do need to face up to the things that I mentioned in my previous posts... Sure, I could have put it all in a more sympathetic light... but my intent was to shock them and snap them out of it. On some level I think I succeeded (though human nature dictates that they will never admit it).

I'm moving on now... so everyone can feel free to say what they will about me... but one last piece of advice... kerguelen... kensabe... seek professional help immediately.

-JAHF

P.S.
I’m a Professor of Psychology (and department head) at a University that shall remain nameless... I'm gone... feel free to shake your fists and yell things...

JAHF,
Thank you for responding. If you are still reading this, I am curious, what diagnosis in the DSM-IV would you say is being exhibited here by Kerguelen? I am familiar with denial as a defense mechanism, which is what it looks like Kensabe is doing (not that I blame him for that at all), but what is the behavior Kerguelen is doing?

I have taken numerous psychology classes over the years, and am stumped.

-Mark

I'd say it's 318.2 Profound mental retardation.

Mark2,

I don't know really how to handle your last comment...
Apparently you're are worrying about my mental health. It's your right. But instead of seeking advice by a third party, why don't you speak frankly to me? Unless you think also that I am too "profoundly mentaly retarded" (see comment above) to understand your point of view, I think it would be a nice move from your part. I promise you that I will try to not cry and to not bite...

I am writing this without anger but a point of bitterness... yes it is present.

Yours, Kerguelen.

Hi Kerguelen,

I wasn't intending any disrespect by my last comment. Sorry if it was interpreted that way. I'm honestly curious as to what JAHF was seeing as a Red Flag of you being obsessed with Maryam in an unhealthy way.

And no, I don't think you are "profoundly mentally retarded". I am very glad you and Ken are communicating so openly, as it seems to help Ken in his healing.

Kerguelen,

Just curious, do you think you are obsessed in an unhealthy way with Maryam/Maryam's memory? I guess I should have asked you in the last post. Again, sorry if the last post offended you.... :)

I made a post on here a while back mostly because I wanted to put a buffer between a grieving parent and a cruel online flamer with a limited vocabulary. Since then I have checked this board maybe every month or so, I am not really sure why but my interest just does not wain. I am compelled again to post because of this masquerading pseudo psychologist. I hope that no one, particularly Mr. Haley, takes seriously any of the ravings of this character. It is at least obvious to me that no one who really had an interest in mental health or the treatment of it would talk to you like that, especially if you really did need help. Personally Mr. Hailey, I am struck by your ability to manage your feelings so openly here and though I think it is quite foolish to speculate on another's psychological health when your only exposure to them is a few posts on a blog, just from your post here you seem to have well developed coping skills and to be of very sound mind.

SmokeyHormel, You are mistaken. Writing can give someone who is properly trained some very profound insight into the inner workings of someone's mental processes. While I agree that JAHF may actually be a "masquerading pseudo psychologist" every point that he has made has been a valid one.

Or maybe it's 787.6 Encopresis, with constipation and overflow incontinence?

Great posts, everyone. The hornet's nest is buzzin'. As for haley fan, I seldom tell (or ask or suggest) people to fuck off. It is not my style at all. But in this case it was more than warranted. Sir, I don't need (or want) your pity, your malnourished psycho-babble, your offensive sniveling drivel, your pretentious threats, or your association with my daughter's memory. No one on this forum knows my role as Maryam's father, and no one, not even I, can gauge how my shortcomings in that role led to her unhappy end. The only person who knew my value as father and friend is Maryam herself. Haley fan's odiferous nonsense doesn't bother me personally, but his insults to Kerguelen and to my daughter's resting soul need a firm response at least once. Let's continue, Kerguelen, Mark, SmokyHormel, and others who wish to discuss Maryam's life and her effect on our hearts. As for that long post that got lost, I'll write another similar one soon. Maybe not as rambling this time. Love to you all (even the assholes).

Typically, it's the people that are suffering from some type of psychosis that are prone to using the word "psycho-babble."

I'm just saying.

Oh, then maybe I meant psycho-bubble. Sorry to burst yours.

ken

all things considered, you are being quite the defensive ass . i know quite a bit about this situation. i knew your daughter quite well. we shared an apartment briefly (a few months) we talked about a few different things including our childhoods and what led us to our chosen career paths. you came up quite a bit in various conversations. you are not being entirely truthful in this board. i think that one guy is dead-on when he says that you need to face the musicso you can get past it. you have not admitted any wrong doing anywhere in here --- but i know different. i won't go into it out of respect for her --- my friend --- but you know what you did and did not do.

kureuglean or whatever --- do you acknowledge that you are beingweird? Or is everone just a bunch of assholes and you are normal?

p.s. your psycho bubble comment was weak.

shes kinda cute

News Flash

The User "LiLLy380" is not a chick. "She" has posted 60 comments on various boards in the past couple of hours. All coments are along the lines of "she's hot" or "I'd have lesbian sex with her" and all the other shit dudes wish girls would say.

Repeating "LiLLy380" is not a girl.

I'm gonna guess it's either a fat old white guy or an Asian dude in his 20's posing as a girl. Those are the usual suspects in these fucking psuedo-lesbian posts on boards like this.

Now, back to Haley. And The Parent of the Year Ken. And Future Serial Killer kerguelen.

Ram,
You're a bullshitter. I'm being defensive? After assholes like you talking about my daughter as if she's a piece of meat they slobber over? If you think you know some secretive evil I committed, I'm interested in hearing it. Not that I give a damn what you think of me. But accusation by innuendo is slimey and cowardly. I totally doubt that you ever met my daughter. Tell me one thing about her childhood that only her father would know. If it's true, I'll acknowledge it. If it's false, I'll call you out.

"After assholes like you talking about my daughter as if she's a piece of meat they slobber over?"

You are being defensive again. I did no such thing. she wasn't my type. i'm gay. maybe that is why she opened up to me. maybe that is why she felt that she could trust me.

As for the proof that you are asking for, i said i won't go into it out of respect for her. she was my friend, even if it was for a brief moment in time. even if i gave you definitive proof i feel that you would not acknowledge it. it's easier or you to live in denial as many other posters have pointed out.

you still have not admitted any wrong doing anywhere in here. why is that?

i bet you and my dad would get along famously.

Kensabe,

remember, we feed the goldfishs, not the trolls.
Hold on and don't fell in the trap!

Yours, Kerguelen.

Mark2,

thanks for your answer. I wasn't offended by your comment, just a little puzzled (I know that the comment about the "retard" is not from you but it seemed to be an answer to your query) . I think I see your point but you can understand that from my point of view I am almost certain that a possible answer from JAHF would be very "friendly" towards me. I asked to you because you always intervenes here with respect and tact and your opinion has worth for me. I don't answer to the occupational haters because there is no possible discussion.
So for me, Mark, the case is closed on this topic, without resentment.

Concerning the second topic, how to answer...
Considering the "quality" of some current comments I hope you will understand my caution. Bear in mind too that I am not at all competent in psychology and I am not prone to "introspection" (sorry: no translation available for me).
I learned about the death of Maryam Haley in February 2008. It was the end of a selfish pleasure and a very rough return to the reality. My two personal main comments at the moment: "It's unfair!" and "It cannot be the end!".
The spring was not very pleasant because I had the first thought in mind. Yes this was an unhealthy situation.
This idea of unfairness is still present for me but now I feel I can deal with it. The past can not be altered. Yes but we can put lights on it, think about it, remember about it. It doesn't form a gruesome obsession. For me this thread represents a kind of tribute to Maryam Haley.
I didn't come here without hesitation: is my behaviour normal?, isn't it sheer madness to participate in this thread?, what I write, isn't it rubbish? And the most important: is it the good way to respect a departed person?
I have still no clear answer to any of these questions. But I made a personal choice. Along with another persons (as you Mark!) I bring my stones here nearby from Kensabe's testimonies. I have not secret agenda, no definite plans. For sure this thread will have inevitably a end. How? I don't know. For the moment I have still things to say.

Why to do that? I simply think that Maryam Haley deserves a tribute and deserves to be remembered. I will just add that I found (find!) her very sympathetic.

So, Mark, I think at the end that I am not obsessed with Maryam Haley's memory in an unhealthy way. A few months ago my answer could have be different. There is no possible comparison between me and Kensabe, but when you speak of a cathartic aspect of our talks, I can say to you it operates for me.

I finished my answer. Of course it is filled with (intentional and unintentional) blanks. If you read it, Mark, perhaps will you think that I am in complete self-delusion. But for me it is more humane to display cumbersome empathy and compassion rather than the skilled hate displayed by some comments.

Yours, Kerguelen.

Thank you, Kerguelen, for reminding me about the troll. I guess I allowed myself to take his stinky bait to vent a little passion. Of the phases of grief, according to various real psychologists, is one called anger. I am on the fringes of that stage, I believe. I'm a little more on edge, more prone to the button-pushing of the troll and his peripatetic minions. And of course I realize the troll is changing names like the changeling he believes himself to be. At the same time, good-hearted Kerguelen, he represents the blurry-faced monster that stole my daughter. He embodies the puss-blistered gargoyle that devoured Maryam in her prime, the sneering, life-sucking maggot that rendered her sweet heart and tender soul into smoking ashes. I can't take my anger out on Chico, but the troll is handy. And really, an easy target. But as you suggest, the pleasure of flaying his cretinous hide is ephemeral at best, and we are gathered in this ether-cave to elevate our spirits through remembrance of a loving young woman whose birth and life were my crowning achievement. And I thank you for reminding me that there are some words and thoughts not worth the breath or the finger-motion to produce.

Oh, but let me take one last swing, will you not? Don't I deserve one last scream into the monitor, a farewell coma-mierda adieu to the bastards whose eyes I damn for laying sight on my girl's body as if it were brought forth from my loins (and her mother's womb) for their sexual gluttony to exploit? As her father, as her best friend every day of her life, as her constant companion in dreams and daylight visions, I claim the right to spit in the face of those whose eyes grew swollen from taking her beauty and rendering it into sour vomit.

Hey, troll. G'night now.

Outsider,
Come inside and be one of us. Thank you for your wisdom and calming words. I am truly not an aggressive person, and for a year I passively dealt with losing my gift from heaven. I have not found an adequate way to tell my friends and others here what she meant to me, how I loved her, how she loved me, what we endured as a family, and what her death has meant. I don't blame Chico for her death, because I have gathered the same impression you have that he probably did care for her in his way, however warped. But he was responsible for killing her spirit, which was a slower and more agonizing death. She still had some of it when she went to him the last time, but there wasn't much left of my sweet little girl. She could have recovered it, and there was hope that she would escape him and come back to her family (her mother frantically tried to keep her from going back to Chico). I forgive him for some of his involvement, but the waste of love and fulfillment between parent and child is not like losing your wallet or breaking up with a girlfriend. There is no remedy and there is no reconciliation. There is a void which grows exponentially larger as the survivors age and try to hang on to life in some fashion. So I vented a bit of that emotion, and I'm asking you all for understanding. Let me vent. I think I'm done.

I kind of think her death was either accidental or not intentional. Did you read my posting of a few months ago when I told of an email I got from Chico the day after Maryam's passing? At first I dismissed it as a madman's rambling, but I think he was trying to tell me he was sorry for what happened to her and that he could not have taken her life, that he loved her and considered her a treasure. I'm sure he didn't treat her well much of the time, and judging by her wanting to run and hide from him after he pistol-whipped her, raped her, and killed one of her cats in front of her, she had just about reached her limit from his abuse. But she went back to him, and neither her mother (where Maryam had gone to stay after running from him) nor I can figure out why she did. I suspect he had either emotional or some physical control over her, and she could not break free.

One of the stages of grief after anger is acceptance, and though that one's a way off, I feel calmer, and I thank you and other caring strangers such as Kerguelen for trying to keep me from falling overboard. I realize that this forum is pretty wide-open, and I thought I could put up with anything. But there was this one guy...

Don't have to be an outsider, like I said. Hang around, keep us company.

In one of her last conversations with me, she said she had enough first hand information to have Chico sent to prison for life. After he attacked her, she was so angry she wanted to testify against him. I'm not sure if she meant his crimes against her or others, or various cases. She was afraid of what he would do if he found out her intentions, she said. I think she had already gone to the authorities and was on the witness list of an upcoming indictment against him. The unanswered questions are frustrating, especially why she went back to him and what happened the last day and night of her life. There may be people alive who know the answers, but who can be sure except Chico and Maryam. I didn't read the Jasmine Tame interview. There are articles by porn industry writers (such as Luke Ford) that chronicle Chico's treatment of Maryam and other women. Generally Maryam was very loyal to her friends and lovers. People had to really do her wrong to turn her against them. Did you read the story of her well-publicized affair with a European porn director named Csaba who married her in order to get a green card? That was perhaps the most brazen case of treachery that anyone played on her, and it drove her into Chico's arms, from what I can gather. Chico told me in one of his vindictive emails that he paid thousands of dollars to get her divorced from Csaba, and she said she was so mad she turned Csaba into the immigration department. I believe he has since been deported. I can somewhat imagine why she stayed with Chico even when he became abusive, but the theory is too nebulous to put words to. Or perhaps too scary.

I was reading and this word kept coming up, so I looked it up.

cathartic - n. An agent for purging the bowels, especially a laxative.

WTF?

Word Man,
Cathartic means different things for different professions, I guess. Cathartic as I am using it is meant as simply an emotional release. Talk therapy is supposed to be cathartic and leads to insights or breakthroughs that help the patient.
I saw your definition on dictionary.com and couldn't help wondering where it came from, since it's the first I've heard of it.

Outsider,
Yes, there are a lot of unanswered questions. I realize Chico talked about Maryam's heroin addiction, but the hospital and autopsy remarks listed no needle marks on her body, and family members who prepared her for the funeral said there were no marks on her. And according to the same reports, she had no heroin in her system at time of death. I believe Maryam was taking methadone for treatment for an oxycontin addiction that she readily discussed to me and others. I would hope she didn't have a heroin problem, but I can't say for sure. It's hard to believe anything Chico said at any time about anything, but when looking for clues about Maryam's last days, his words have to come under scrutiny. I'm glad you're trying to piece together the clues, vague as they are.

Guys who rag on women, obviously aren't nothing special, probably fat, hairy, gross, angry at the world. Its just like bully's at schools, or kids who talk shit through the computer. You're completely angry inside. You're mother was a fucking cunt who never taught you a thing about respect. It sucks to find out the truth about her once she passes, then reading comments that actually affected her. Imagine the shit she'd been through, im sure to some extent the story is exaggerated but still. Most of us are lucky enough to never go through anything close to that. Grow the fuck up losers.

Im sorry to hear of her death, a life is a life no matter how it is lived. she was young, and im sure she enjoyed life at times, and to die young is tragic.

What happened? It seems all posting has stopped.

Yes, it seems that neither Kerguelen nor Kensabe have posted in a month. I check this forum occasionally, and wonder what happened as well.

Jeff, Mark2,

I can only speak for myself. Nothing peculiar happened to me. Contributions here are relying on will. I have just issues in this area...
I don't repudiate a single word among those I wrote earlier but I still have doubts about the pertinence of my reasonning, concerning both Maryam Haley and Kensabe.
Nevertheless I want to write a greater and more specific post. Just give me time.

And for Kensabe, I suppose he is like us: he will post here (or not) if he has got the will. We must only remember that he chose to disclose here and to share with strangers intimate facts and thoughts. I doubt it could be an easy thing.

Yours, Kerguelen.

Reading the most recent posts... I'd say that it is fairly obvious what happened here.

Maybe it's gone over my thick head, but what would you say happened, Strongbad? I would assume you think Ken finally got tired of talking to us on here, or the thread has died a natural death due to inactivity or exhausting its purpose. Either way, I wish Ken the best, and it has been a pleasure communicating with you all.

Mark2,

you could be right as for the state of this thread. Be that as it may I approve completely of your last sentence. Thank you!

Yours, Kerguelen.

I'd say that the brilliant musings of JAHF shined a very uncomfortable spotlight on the diminishing psyches of two very troubled posters.

... or maybe I'm just saying this because I know making such a statement would likely bring them both back in force.

That could very well be it, although I don't think I would characterize the two posters in question as "very troubled". One is a grieving father, and the other is a fan of Haley, the persona created by Maryam.

...or maybe you are right, that by posting a statement like that would bring them both back in force. Who knows.

Hi all! No, I haven't dropped off the edge of the earth. And also no, I'm not a troubled person, other than a parent going through normal patterns of grief. I appreciate your thoughts and comments, speculative though they often are. I will look for your longer post, Kerguelen. You have special insights and your intent seems to be innocent and well-meaning. Mark2, I'm glad you keep checking the forum, and that you seem to miss the interaction. I'll be here.

Kensabe,

it's good to know that you're still in the vicinity. Don't be astonished if I don't post in the near future, I will be very busy in the next three weeks.

I thank you for the confidence you expressed to me. But remember: I'am just an ordinary man. You know that I "knew" only the character Haley Paige. I am one person among a bunch of guys you would have legitimate reasons to despise. In saying that I am not motivated by shame, masochism or self-denigrating but I just want that you keep in mind the element mentioned above. I let you to be judge.

If this thread help you in any way, then this is a good thing. Nevertheless I wish that all these comments (including mine) don't interfere with your grief. And you know how "balanced" are certain posts...
To finish, I hope that, if needed, you get efficient support, far away from this thread!
I wish you the best.

Yours, Kerguelen.

This is just my opinion, obviously but I don't see how its likely that JAHF is any kind of professional, let alone a Psychology Professor. As I said before, I don't think anyone who has had exposure, of any kind, to the mental health profession would act as recklessly with another persons feelings as professor pseudo did in his series of posts. I can't believe that people would swallow the story he presents. I think when you combine his above mentioned careless criticism with his dorm room verbiage and his seemingly unhinged temper, I don't see how his story could be plausible. I guess it was Strongbad's gushing superlative of his "brilliant musings" that I just could not ignore. Apart from his bogus credentials casting a dubious light on anything he said, I don't think Prof. Pseudo presents anything that you could not find in a mediocre Psych 101 paper. when considering the depth of his criticisms, I think his "musings" seems shallow and unsupported. Though most of his theories are plausible, so are many other general speculations about the mental health of a man one knows little about. It is essentially like writing a fortune cookie for an acquaintance, its easy to do without any kind of accountability. However without training or knowledge of the subject, it is almost impossible to say something constructive about a man's psychological health with little knowledge of the person. As someone pointed out, in rather presumptive terms, a professional can glean onto a person's state of mind through there writing but Prof. Pseudo was in no position to do that. I don't mean to always run to the defense of Mr. Hailey but when some of the more "science fiction" based criticism's on him start to hold water with people I start to worry. To be honest many post's on this board have made me uncomfortable and not always are they one's attacking Mr. Hailey. It does seems like a few people have perhaps tried to empathize with Mr. Hailey a bit to forcefully but I don't think any harm has been done to either side. I think perhaps we should not try to make this more then what it is. As a whole I find this board interesting to say the least and the discussion has kept me coming back for months now so I am not complaining. I hope I did not offend anyone, save the prof for whom I am unconcerned. That kind of callousness does not demands consideration.

OK, Kerguelen, hope everything goes well for you. Talk to you on the flip side.

Smokey, what I still don't get is what I am supposed to be defensive about, or to be defended from. The ranters rant, the scornful scorn themselves, and one radiant soul is still a beacon of light in the darkness.

Thanksgiving Day we had a guest who had lost his young daughter a couple of weeks ago in circumstances similar to Maryam's. He didn't know his daughter very well, since his life took him away from her early on, and his self-guilt was eating at him. He said he made choices back then that he might regret now but that he can't say he would have changed in the face of circumstances. I told him about my sense of guilt, that I examine my choices during Maryam's childhood and young adulthood that may have changed her life's outcome. But I told my friend that I would make those choices the same way, because life is seldom about one person or one choice.

For example, shortly before Maryam got into the adult business, she was living at my home in Oklahoma. She had come to visit from California, and her car broke down, and my wife and I invited her to stay with us for an extended period of time. She was under the influence of a controlling boyfriend, who wanted her to return to San Diego, and she found that distance from him diminished his control over her. She was moving into a different kind of lifestyle in Oklahoma, when my wife and I made a decision to move from Oklahoma to California, both for family reasons and to pursue better job situations. Maryam at first didn't want to go back to California, then decided that it would be OK, and we all traveled to California together. We invited her to live with us, but she declined, and in a few months got a traveling opportunity with a travel writer, and spent a year in Australia. When she came back she got into the adult business, according to her interviews.

She didn't tell me all the truth of her professional work, so I'm not sure how and when things took place. I feel somewhat responsible for where her life went in California, because if we had stayed in Oklahoma, and she had remained there, it's doubtful she would have gotten involved in the adult scene. Yet, given the reasons for making the choice at the time, I can't blame myself too harshly. I told my friend this, and he agreed that his decisions, too, were ones he had to make for various reasons.

As for influencing Maryam in any way that would have directed her to the adult business and her tragic death, I have no weight on my conscience. She received total and unconditional love from both of her parents, and full support for her wishes and opinions. As an only child she had no competition for her parents' affection and admiration, and she had a loving circle of friends and relatives (for the most part). In her mid-teens she endured the break-up of her parents' relationship, and although she approved of our divorce when that decision was made, there was a two year period when the family circle that had been strong for most of her youth began to erode. However, both her mother and I remained committed to her well-being, and she was a good daughter to us by her return love and affection.

She and I continued a close relationship even when I moved away from California. She visited me in each place I moved to, including Arizona, Michigan, and Oklahoma. She wanted to know what was happening in my life, and wanted to meet and approve of the new people in my life.

She often mentioned that I did not know some of the things that happened to her in high school and in later years, and said that one day she would shock me with the details. In a discussion just months before her death, she said she wanted to challenge me with gross stories about our lives, in which we would one-up the other in the telling of sinful things we did. I told her that she would probably win, but I was game. We didn't get the chance, but it was one of her hints to me that she may not be the innocent girl I wanted to believe her to be. She knew very well how I felt about her, and believed I would be disappointed and hurt by her immorality. She may have accepted that I was pretty open-minded, but she realized that a father, no matter how liberal-minded, doesn't want his beloved daughter to be involved in activities of a degrading nature. Still, she was willing to take the chance of my displeasure, because ultimately, she didn't want to keep secrets from me, as I never kept any from her.

But I would prefer to have her with me now, telling me all the gory details, laughing them off or trying to reconcile them in my soul, than living in darkness from her absence. The hole in my heart is every growing, and one day will consume it.

Two impressive and valuable posts from both SmokeyHormel and Kensabe...

A quick comment now.

SmokeyHormel I greatly appreciate the sound sangfroid of your interventions. Even if I am part of your concerns (at least it's the way I interpret your last post; right? Wrong?) I greet your honesty.

Kensabe, you used the word "immorality". It's a very powerful word. I respect your opinion but I find this precise word very harsh and I feel ill at ease with it.
On a more positive side when I read you I have always the impression that the relationships between you and your daughter were not altered even after her entrance in the Industry. Maryam Haley concealed to you some secrets but she never became a stranger, an another person for you, did she?
One thing which seems very important to me: she kept you informed about important issues in her life (drugs, her failed marriage).
As for Haley Paige, the fictional character created by Maryam Haley, I wish you will be able one day to deal with her without anger or bitterness. Haley Paige could be an embarrassment, a troublesome figure but neither a frightening nor a fallen character...
I really get to the essential (from my point of view) and I hope you will not be shocked.

Kensabe, for your last sentence... You have got all my sympathy. Cherish the good memories, try to move away the bad ones, keep your faith in your daughter.

Yours, Kerguelen.

Good points, Kerguelen. I am not put off by frank and direct statements or opinions, and I appreciate your discussion.

You are correct in assuming that Maryam's professional life did not change my feelings for her, my respect and love and belief in her worth. Indeed, she did tell me about many of the issues that concerned her, and in that I was grateful. I realized that anything she kept secret, at least temporarily, was her private business and I had no right to demand or even request an accounting on her part. I was not a demanding or possessive father (maybe that's why some men have expressed the opinion I could have done more to influence her choices). Even if she believed that, I can understand her hesitancy in telling me all the details for fear of my disapproval. She may have thought I would characterize her behavior as a form of immorality.

In my previous post I used the word immorality as a personal attitude, not as a judgmental term. I think of morality as an individual choice, though it can also refer to a religious regimen that aims to limit and control the actions and attitudes of individuals. I'm not much concerned with religious definitions of morality. Maryam probably had an idea what I considered moral and immoral regarding sexual behavior based on my lifestyle and the religion I belonged to most of my life (which I no longer practice). Whether she was right or wrong, she could have believed I would consider her involvement in porn as a form of immorality. Thinking about it now, I'm not sure if I do or don't, because the issue is no longer relevant. If we had been able over time to discuss her actions as a sex actress and model, I suppose I would have confronted the morality issues, and p